wtt for Tubs True blue etc.........

[Randy]

I would like to trade for some Tubs true blues, Eclipse Yellow, Yellow Submarines,Creamsicle and Yellow Eagle Eye please post pictures of what you have.

Here is a few that I have to trade with I have a few more if this is not what you are looking for.I also have lots of acro frags thet I would trade.

I have alot of the Lunar Exlipse

They are more blue in person,This is not the best pic.

 

[Marine Flora]

What lighting do you have them under? I gave away the last frag of the tubs blues in a frag pack. I can always get more of it.

 

[surfn]

just so you guys know....Tubs is a persons name, who named a particularly bright morph of blue zoas that he had in his tank.

and per a recent discussion with Tubs, and a few members on this forum. we learned that Tubs has only given away 2 frags of *his* Tubs blue zoas in the past year or so......

so, either they grow like weeds, or you can pretty much just call any blue zoa morph that you come across, Tubs Blue Zoas for trading/selling sakes.

chances that they are direct decendents from his actual colony are slim to none. and most of the ones people trade/sell as Tubs Blue Zoas are just your random/common blue zoa morph from the wild which come in all kinds of shades/brightnes.

just an FYI. blue zoas are just blue zoas. but some feel that they are more special with a name attached... :roll:

 

[Marine Flora]

surfn,

agreed with you for the most part. the reason why i said "tubs" when referring to the blue zoos.. was because of 1) name/coral color recognition 2) my friend has a frag of it that he claims has lineage to tubs colony. we placed his side by side with a wild colony i got, same color morph!so does that mean it isn't the same coral if it didn't originate from "XXXXXXX" person? don't all corals at one point or another come from the ocean? is there a possibility they collect from the same area of the ocean where the blue zoas grow every few months?
what makes a "tyree" LE so extravagant from another colony that was collected at the same time, same place just distributed to different parts of the country.

i know tubs is a person... i've met him, john (tubs) in person before. he's a really cool guy and down to earth.

I hope you don't take any of this in the wrong way. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Hopefully there is some freedom of speech on this forum as opposed to some of the others..

and i... 100% agree with your statement below.
"blue zoas are just blue zoas. but some feel that they are more special with a name attached... :Rolling Eyes:"

 

[Randy]

Marine Flora

some of the pictures posted are under 10k with actinic sup. and some are under all vho.


surfn

Does that mean you have some true tubs or not?

 

[surfn]

no, i dont have any blue zoas from tubs. i just have regular blue zoas, no idea what their names are. i have some lighter blues, and some darker ones. but they are all blue to me. probably all wild collected.

i guess the point here i was trying to make. is that you can't call any random blue zoa after a person's name, like it came from him when in fact it really didnt.

this is different than saying any ole blue/red polyp monti from the wild or propagated or from tyree is a superman monti. unless of course you are trying to name it the tyree superman monti. superman monti is fine, but you cant call it the tyree superman monti unless you can trace the lineage of your frag back to him.

so i guess what i'm saying, is that not all blue zoas, are obviously "Tubs Blue Zoas". They are all in fact, "Blue Zoas". They can only be "Tubs Blue Zoas" if in fact they came from the lineage from Tubs himself.

The only reason why people put the Tubs name on it is so they can have a higher trading/selling value IMO.

Tubs himself has even said he doesn't like how everyone has slapped his name on stuff that isn't even from him. But the problem is so widespread theres nothing he can do about it.

So as a recap, what I'm trying to say is. You can call it the common name (like ones off ZoaID) if its fits the colors, whether its wild or propagated. I agree that if its the same colors, its the same common name.

But when using a person's name attached to a coral. You are saying that at one point you know for a fact that it came directly from that person. But how can you say it came directly from that person, if you cant trace it back to them? You can't, and thus this becomes a misleading tactic to sell/trade your stuff to other unknowing hobbyists.

The same problem has arrisen with the Safecracker zoanthids. "Safecracker" is a name. there have been lots of fakes being sold/traded as safecrackrs, that have a dark burgundy color, that aren't even a true red.

Ultimately people get very upset when they are told they dont have "the read deal" considering they dropped a load paying for it. And feel pretty stupid when they do see what the real thing looks like.

This is the big problem with the named zoanthid stuff. There is no way to tell without seeing it with your own eyes. And most of this stuff is passed down from hobbyist to hobbyist. So when you get Tubs Blue Zoas from someone, you beleive they are Tubs Blue Zoas, then give them to the next person, and so on.

So basically, all it takes is one person to fool alot of unknowing hobbyists.

Sorry for my ranting. This is just one of my pet peeves about this hobby.
:roll:

 

[Randy]

To clear this up I want "the read deal" they are for my prop system.I would like some that came from Tubs or some from Tubs.

I know that all I will have is the persons word that they are what they are,but sometimes there is some way to trace them back to him.

So let me know if you nave any.

 

[Marine Flora]

surfn!

what a response! i see your view point with his (tubs) name being used. personally, i'd be offended if my name was being used to raise prices. its really difficult to track lineage if the person did not get it directly from the source. i'm glad you posted and got it out here bro.



sam

 

[twon8]

here are my blues, i have no idea if they are tubs, they behave accordingly, getting lighter almost sky blue centers with high light (udner 400w), I have had them over a year and a half, so they are now officially twon's blues, even more rare than tubs'

 

[Marine Flora]

LOL twon

nice blues btw

there are so many shades of nice true blue. from what i hear from other hobbyists that have seen the tubs true blue is that it doesn't pop under lower lighting.

imo, if the blue doesn't pop at 6500k w/ no actinic supplement.. it isn't a true blue. i've seen a few shades of true blue that pop under just 6500k lighting.

 

[twon8]

back to surfn's point, given the number of times i have seen tubs for sale, there is no way even half of them can trace the lineage back to tubs. that and the fact that there are many unscrupulous sellers who are out for the quick buck leads me to believe there are many blues out there currently called tubs' which likely aren't. All it takes was one person and then they sell to two people, then each one of them sells to two people, and given that they have "tubs" you know they are advertising as so. how could anyone tell which are the real lineage?

 

[twon8]

mine are certainly true blue, they do pop at 6500k, here is a pic under one t5 11k, don't have any pics of the frag tank. not the best, but you can see

and here is overhead with flash

 

[surfn]

exactly guys

there is no way to tell the difference that i know of, other than being able to trace the lineage.

so i guess my question is this, for anyone who wants to call their blue zoas, "Tubs Blue Zoas"

why do you want to call them "Tubs Blue Zoas" if in fact theres no way you can trace them back to Tubs? why not call them "Ultra Rare Blue Zoas", or "Blueberry Zoas". (this is a general question, aimed at anyone who might read this)

I bet if Twon8 posted that pic up on RC or ebay, and called them Tubs Blue Zoas he would make a quick killing. I seriously doubt anyone would question if they came from Tubs or not b/c they look so good.

a similar situation arrose with the Purple Deaths Tubs posted on his website for sale. All of a sudden people were asking around if anyone had any "Tubs Purple Deaths". Well, that would insinuate that all Purple Deaths came from Tubs. Which is in fact not true at all. All of the purple deaths originally came from creetin, and he traded them out to other reefers in the Michigan area, and traded a frag to Tubs. This doesn't make all Purple Deaths, "Tubs Purple Deaths".

it is IMO people just want to slap Tubs' name on them to make them have a higher trading/selling value.

I have to admit that I sold a few frags of blues as tubs. This however was pure ignorance. I honestly thought that the shade and type zoa I had was just name tubs blues, like rastas for example. I didnt know TUB exsisted like I do now. Maybe some people do it out of ignorance, but most do i to get more money.

i also think this is the big reason for it happening. just pure ignorance. and theres only one other possibility besides ignorance, shaddy misleading tactics.

To clear this up I want "the read deal" they are for my prop system.I would like some that came from Tubs or some from Tubs.

I know that all I will have is the persons word that they are what they are,but sometimes there is some way to trace them back to him.

So let me know if you nave any.

Randy, why do you want to get "the real deal"?? why not some of the ones like Twon8 has? IMO his are as good as it gets as far as blue zoas go. the same, if not better than the Tubs morph(s) i have seen (granted I've probably never seen an actual decendent from his tank)

 

[Randy]

atlantisaquarium is one place that has them and you can only take there word that they are "the real deal".

Surfn
I have started a collection of zoas that I can trace back to the original colonies. I only have a few so far. I just started searching a few weeks back.

 

[surfn]

atlantisaquarium is one place that has them and you can only take there word that they are "the real deal".

they have been around a while, and have a good reputation. so i could definitely beleive them when they say the frags can be traced back to Tubs.

if you look on their website, you'll notice they sometimes have frags up called "Tubs Blue Zoas", and other times have frags/colonies up that say just "Blue Zoas".

this would leave me to believe that they do in fact have both, and are honest about which is which.

but then again, they are a business......and are trying to make money.

so just b/c another business names things like that, doesnt necessarily mean that it is "right" and everyone should follow suit. but i guess in the business world, the only way to survive is to follow the practices of the companies that make alot of money, regardless if its right or not.

another really good example, is the green/purple cap that has white polyps, which has been called the "Leng Sy Cap". this was named after a specific person. soon after it came out on Atlantis Aquarium's webpage, everyone around started calling their green cap the "Leng Sy Cap". and selling them for much higher prices than what they were originally going for.

about a year and a half ago, i myself, being the unsuspecting ignorant newbie that i was.....saw a green/purple cap in a LFS, asked if it was the "Leng Sy Cap", b/c it had white polyps (sorta...), the LFS said that it was, and thus I bought 1" by 1" frag for about $40. i look back on that and believe i was such an idiot for taking "their word" for it. :lol:


i think this is a great discussion, and just cuz i'm a mod doesnt mean you can't disagree with me. again, i'm a *MOD*, not a *GOD* like over on RC. i wont put you in the hole and stomp on you just b/c i have a different opinion. :lol:

since this thread has gotten way off topic i'm gonna move it over to a discussion forum.

 

[minibowmatt]

I agree with everything above.

However, I have seen it posted at RC that you can not call Purple People Eaters, PPE's if they didnt come from Blane. I feel that any protopaly that is identically colored and aquacultured can be called PPE's.
As for all the wilc colonies of PPE's that have been showing up, I think people need to start listing them as just that, and lowering their prices accordingly.
If it is just a wild colony that was fragged up, it doesnt command the prices people are asking. Anything that someone has spent time and effort aquaculturing does. JMO! I know it was a little OT, but it follows the same lines...

 

[twon8]

actually i do have the leng sy cap, and if you got yours in richmond you likely have it as well. I got it from atlantis, who got it from brandon when he was tearing his tank down. brandon was the FIRST person in richmond to start keeping sps, 8+ years ago. he worked at fin and feather and started ordering stonies that no one but him and a few early sps'ers bought. As far as i know he got it from someone in dc, where it had made its way through from leng sy to mike paletta's tank; i read someone from dc post on rc that they had gotten it from sanjay who had gotten it from mike, and sanjay confirmed it.

 

[surfn]

I agree with everything above.

However, I have seen it posted at RC that you can not call Purple People Eaters, PPE's if they didnt come from Blane. I feel that any protopaly that is identically colored and aquacultured can be called PPE's.
As for all the wilc colonies of PPE's that have been showing up, I think people need to start listing them as just that, and lowering their prices accordingly.
If it is just a wild colony that was fragged up, it doesnt command the prices people are asking. Anything that someone has spent time and effort aquaculturing does. JMO! I know it was a little OT, but it follows the same lines...

hmmm, i havent seen that on RC. maybe you misread what people were saying? but i agree with your statement.

a "Purple People Eater" does not have a specific persons name in it. the name describes what it is. if its a "People Eater", it HAS to have a green slit mouth. if its a "Purple People Eater", it HAS to be purple, and have a green skirt along with that green slit mouth.

however, theres a big difference when calling a PPE a PPE, versus calling a wild colony you got from a LFS "Blane Peruns Purple People Eaters". b/c it in fact didnt come from Perun. you can only call it "Blane Peruns Purple People Eaters" if in fact you can trace it back to him.

does this make sense?

but yeah, i agree if it came from the wild you should just call it "Wild".

 

[surfn]

actually i do have the leng sy cap, and if you got yours in richmond you likely have it as well. I got it from atlantis, who got it from brandon when he was tearing his tank down. brandon was the FIRST person in richmond to start keeping sps, 8+ years ago. he worked at fin and feather and started ordering stonies that no one but him and a few early sps'ers bought. As far as i know he got it from someone in dc, where it had made its way through from leng sy to mike paletta's tank; i read someone from dc post on rc that they had gotten it from sanjay who had gotten it from mike, and sanjay confirmed it.

ohhh ok, i guess i do have it then. cuz yeah, i got mine from marvin's big colony in his show tank.

i just figured by now, since the prices for the green cap are MUCH lower now then they were, and he doesn't have the "leng sy cap" name posted on it when its for sale anymore, thats its indeed not.

but who knows, i honestly cant tell that very well the difference b/w it and my green cap i got up here from the locals.

in fact, the polyps turned green on me, and havent been white since last summer. :roll:

oh well.. lol

 

[twon8]

my polyps had a time as washed out brownish green, but have returned to white. I don't know that marvin knows that he has the leng sy cap. I only know because i spend way too much time on rc, and i read the people from dc talking about how they had gotten theirs.