WXM Module Discontinued By Neptune Systems

[ca1ore]

IMO Neptune likes their costs cheaper than the plastic in their products and likely bawked at the price.

That said, the industry also seems like it is trying to make customer cash grabs and build "systems" versus products that work together. I'm surprised that Red Sea hasn't rumored their own controller yet.

Trying to make a controller ostensibly drove Vertex out of business LOL. Both Neptune and ETM have been moving onto each other’s ‘turf’ for a while now. Beyond what’s already happened, ETM is clearly on the controller path (maybe more software than hardware) and a competitor to Radion seems inevitable from Neptune. Trying to assess ‘blame’ is largely foolish and pointless. While convenience certainly is all on one platform; all eggs in a single basket may not actually be the wisest approach. I’m largely done getting all outraged over stuff I cannot control.

 

[Reef Tripp]

Also neptune promised that the classic apex would work with the trident and it was not, now if you want one you have to buy the new apex.

 

[ReeferCrabness]

This is why I haven't bought new equipment in years. The systems I use doesn't have all the fancy automation of today's units, but then again, I don't have to bed down with any one supplier. I have been screwed by equipment companies going out of business and then I am left with expensive paper weight. I have to be more hands on with my equipment, but find I am more in tune with changes in my tank by doing so.

 

[jose hernandez]

ecotech is great had them since the first radion came out will always be a ecotech customer for as long as i stay in this hobby

 

[mal7887]

Also neptune promised that the classic apex would work with the trident and it was not, now if you want one you have to buy the new apex.

Not at all true.

 

[Albertan22]

I love the MP40’s but have no intentions of going with a full Ecotech ecosystem so I guess I’ll milk my current power heads as long as I can then go with the Neptune power heads. I’m quite disappointed that Ecotech and Neptune aren’t playing nice. I can’t and won’t say which party is to blame as these things are usually 2 sided, given a fight between the two I’ll be going Apex though as Mobius doesn’t help me at all with the mix of equipment brands I run and my hybrid lighting.

I wonder if Ecotech might find out that their hardcore fan base isn’t quite as big as they maybe think? More and more people are starting to see the value in other lighting solutions. If they are going to push an all or none approach to their new product lines they may just find more people taking the“none” approach or exploiting the used equipment market for the older compatible products.

 

[Shooter6]

Why upset with ecotech and not with neptune?

Not neptunes choice, it ecotechs. They are hoping the mobius will be a direct competitor to neptune in the future.

 

[Lota Reefer]

Sony did awesome licensing HDMI ports, picking up cash in any brand TV. ETM could learn from victories in the past like this. Also the failures, like VHS and beta, film and digital cameras, IBM and apple all point to during the battle consumers choose lowest cost, apple nearly died until it opened its software to licensing etc. Both businesses would do well to apply some case studies and compare against their ambitions. In the meantime customer engagement is zero.

 

[User1]

I wonder if Ecotech might find out that their hardcore fan base isn’t quite as big as they maybe think? More and more people are starting to see the value in other lighting solutions. If they are going to push an all or none approach to their new product lines they may just find more people taking the“none” approach or exploiting the used equipment market for the older compatible products.

Their fan base is being testing based on new products and quality. Their issues with the launch of their pumps and now the G5's. Doesn't matter if it is corrected after the fact with great support there is a history. Any search will yield results. Good and fast response is fine - but I don't think I would try and hitch a ride from low earth orbit on it yet.

I am probably odd man out here. It is of my personal belief that if a known hardware manufacture company has a controller, and a sizeable market share, then it is cheaper for me to work with them than for me to design it. Look at Ford and GM for example. You think they are manufacturing their own CPU's to drive in-car tech or autonomous driving? No, they are not. They source it out and develop the software.
I'm seeing a lot of greed here with companies creating their own apps, dongles, controllers, and other propriety stuff that is raising the cost and increasing electrical hazards in our homes. So for me - I look at everything and then go with my gut. So far that has worked out ok with the exception of using Dry Pukani rock Don't use that or any other dry rock...

 

[DBR_Reef]

So watching Neptune’s Live stream last night, Terrence announced that the WXM is being discontinued. It’s been around almost as long as the Apex Classic! He explained that basically the writing has been on the wall for a while and EcoTech has made it clear they don’t want their products to work with 3rd parties. I had a feeling this would happen one day after EcoTech refused to allow the WXM control the Vectra (even though it could) . Then with Versa and Now G5 lights they are Bluetooth only.


For me, I would much prefer a product that is open to other platforms and has as many Integration possibilities as possible. I avoided a Vectra pump for this very reason. (Even after Tim in interviews stated it would work with third parties at launch)

I like to have complex scheduling routines and be able to trigger modes from one source (apex), one dashboard to rule them all. Now knowing that the MP10, 40, 60 are now going this same route where it can’t be controlled by third party platforms is very disappointing.

It’s very disappointing to me that EcoTech Is going this route. They absolutely make quality products, But this is a deal breaker for me and will cause me to consider other products in the future.

Maybe I’m the only one. What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

Sign of a dying company- not that it can't be turned around by a innovative and desirable product. But when a company relies on shielding of their products by proprietary means, or a exclusive ecosystem, it generally indicates a impending slow decline. Both Kodak and Xerox famously fell into this trap, and there has been talk for years that apple may be taking the slow dive as well.

Ecotech should be innovating-- Vortechs are pretty old and are outperformed by many competitors. Ecotech should have gotten the Nero, not AI (they are the same company after all). I suppose the new radions are a "innovation"-- but really it is just a recognition that pucks aren't the best form factor for reef lighting- a innovation that many competitors have had for years. Gen 4 was still my favorite LED reef light though- closest look to halides, and went great paired with T5. Ecotech vectras aren't exactly know for their reliability, and neither are the new dosing pumps, with both not providing any real advantages over other companies products either.

Professional quality has never been the hallmark of ecotech (which is fine), so it's going to have a hard time coasting on old products (like Tunze, Royal Exclusiv, or abyzz can). Ecotech has always been about innovative products nicely packaged but made cheaply- meaning they make a healthy profit on each item but have high research and development costs (just like apple in the days of steve jobs). But ecotech hasn't innovated and competitors are starting to catch up. Ecotech is closing up the ecosystem to try to force customers to remain loyal.

Or maybe they have the next greatest reefing gadget up their sleeve. Or maybe they will succeed in Mobius with the mantra of apple: it just works. There is certainly a demand in this hobby for plug and hardware. We'll see.

Just my 2cents.

 

[bigcheese]

These companies should come together and write a spec for 'communicating with stream pumps', 'skimmer communication protocol', or whatever or leverage one of the (I'm guessing) already existing standards in the IoT space...

Probably not the best way to frame that up, it's an idea that's been tried time and time again, with the same results.
Think VHS and Betamax. Edison vs. Westinghouse. Why everyone needed to get a new TV or rent a cable box a few years back.
We certainly don't need more proprietary hacks of standard protocols, like 'wireless aquabus' (aquabus is just USB in form factor and protocol with non-standard voltages and max current. UPnP would be the network-based analogue, except it sucks and is insecure).

What's working today in the OT (and IT) environments are documented RESTful APIs and connectivity based on IP. Doesn't matter if the device connects over Ethernet, WiFi, LTE, 5,6, or 7G, or super-mega-aquabus v7 turbo edition, as long as it has a reachable IP address.

A controller only needs to know what keys mean what things in the real world, and what the possible range of values it can get/set. That's where vendor documentation (aka "publishing the API") comes in.

Personally, I think Red Sea is in the driver's seat here, it's pretty easy to work with. Some AI stuff has been reverse-engineered to expose APIs and modules created to allow control from any Python script. And of course, we have our own Reef-Pi to take advantage of those standards.

Mark my words, that will be the next evolution in automation. The ones that accept it will grow market share. The ones that stay a closed ecosystem will see their market share or profit margin shrink.

 

[lakai]

Not neptunes choice, it ecotechs. They are hoping the mobius will be a direct competitor to neptune in the future.

How so ? Does Mobius monitor pH, salinity, control outlets too ?

 

[salty150]

I'm willing to bet not pushing for integration is on Neptune, especially with information being leaked about a potential Light coming out from them.

Great, a new gaudy bright orange and silver plastic light...

I'm surprised that Red Sea hasn't rumored their own controller yet.

Their new doser is supposed to be coming out...

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I love the MP40’s but have no intentions of going with a full Ecotech ecosystem

That's the beauty of ETM products, you don't have to have a controller to use them. They are ready to go out of the box. As pointed out by JoshH, Neptune requires a controller. I'd venture to say that more hobbyist are running their tanks without a controller of any kind and wouldn't mind a free Mobius app to control their already running gear.

so I guess I’ll milk my current power heads as long as I can then go with the Neptune power heads. I’m quite disappointed that Ecotech and Neptune aren’t playing nice.

I'm sure there is plenty of blame to go around, about a week ago Terrance posted in another r2r thread about how ecotech is to blame for not playing nice and I basically asked what he expected, only to be met with crickets.

As far as milking your VorTechs, there's no need because the new ones are backwards compatible to WXM.

------------------------

I get the purpose of discontinuing WXM, Neptune is drawing a line in the sand, it forces hobbyist to choose a side, and they're betting that more users will flock to Apex and abandon ETM. It's a bold move and will be very interesting to see where the chips fall. I think WXM is (and always has been) a pathway to Apex by those who starting out with ETM products, taking that away isn't a smart decision.

What's interesting is they are painting themselves in a corner by holding onto their current customers, and making it harder for new customers even want an Apex. When given the option to purchase equipment that needs a controller to run vs just purchasing equipment capable of working straight out of the box. The choice should be obvious.

I personally have a robust Apex system and use Mobius to control all my ETM equipment. I don't see a reason to have a WXM anymore. I personally think that both platforms compliment each other rather well. But if I was new to the hobby, I don't think I would even consider an Apex.

 

[Kyl]

So watching Neptune’s Live stream last night, Terrence announced that the WXM is being discontinued. It’s been around almost as long as the Apex Classic! He explained that basically the writing has been on the wall for a while and EcoTech has made it clear they don’t want their products to work with 3rd parties. I had a feeling this would happen one day after EcoTech refused to allow the WXM control the Vectra (even though it could) . Then with Versa and Now G5 lights they are Bluetooth only.


For me, I would much prefer a product that is open to other platforms and has as many Integration possibilities as possible. I avoided a Vectra pump for this very reason. (Even after Tim in interviews stated it would work with third parties at launch)

I like to have complex scheduling routines and be able to trigger modes from one source (apex), one dashboard to rule them all. Now knowing that the MP10, 40, 60 are now going this same route where it can’t be controlled by third party platforms is very disappointing.

It’s very disappointing to me that EcoTech Is going this route. They absolutely make quality products, But this is a deal breaker for me and will cause me to consider other products in the future.

Maybe I’m the only one. What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

Both parties are to blame, not solely ETM.

 

[salty150]

The GHL is looking better all the time...

 

[Kyl]

The GHL is looking better all the time...

Please don't summon him.

 

[Kyle Bruin]

So watching Neptune’s Live stream last night, Terrence announced that the WXM is being discontinued. It’s been around almost as long as the Apex Classic! He explained that basically the writing has been on the wall for a while and EcoTech has made it clear they don’t want their products to work with 3rd parties. I had a feeling this would happen one day after EcoTech refused to allow the WXM control the Vectra (even though it could) . Then with Versa and Now G5 lights they are Bluetooth only.

I thought the new Hydra lights are Bluetooth only just for now. That WiFi would be enabled in the future?

 

[User1]

But if I was new to the hobby, I don't think I would even consider an Apex.

Depends on what your requirements are honestly. Basic functional on / off you would probably be fine with a lot of the simple apps out there. Want more control and monitoring the smarter head units do the trick. Note brand doesn't matter - it can be Apex, GHL, Reef Angel, or a Pi based solution. Mobius isn't there today and I'm not even including automated testing.

I don't know - we can get caught up in a quagmire discussing this for sure I think what they did with Mobius made sense. Not sure I'd agree not playing with controller manufactures but that is their call. I do like what Coralvue did with their hydros thing and making it a integrated com and power layer. Pretty innovative on their part from a reduction of power brick point of view

Hope all is well.

 

[SeabrookZoo]

Not to try and hijack a thread, maybe I missed it, but for those of us that are running multiple Ecotech products through Apex with the WXM, will this affect the usability going forward? As in updates to the WXM modules themselves or even the Ecotech products will the compatibility be taken away and forced us to use one or another platform?