Zoas Troubles

CodyRVA · Jun 6, 2016

I've recently noticed a lot of die off of freshly cut Zoas and closing up of existing colonies, but no affect to my palys. It's very inconsistent and i'm trying to find the culprit. The melting usually affects only freshly cut frags.

I suspect amphipods are to blame. My tank is absolutely infested with them, some of which are quite large. So, i did a test... I cut three frags of sunny D's, I chose palys because literally any zoa i cut just melts away. I placed the three frags in different areas of the tank. Two frags were placed in different areas prone to a lot of amphipod activity (low flow and shade), within days they melted. The other frag, placed in high flow and high light was the only survivor. These frags came from a colony of 50+ happy polyps.

Many of my older zoas, not freshly cut frags, have also just closed up, but only in sections. They close up and they get a white tip in their center. They have done this for several weeks if not several months now, no colonies have been lost, but every time it starts to look better, at least one zoa colony will go through the process again.

All thoughts, ideas, opinions are welcome. My livestock list and recent parameters are as follows:

Livestock:
Yellow Eye Kole Tang
Single Spot Foxface
Ocellaris Clown
Percula Clown
Mandarain - Recently added (3 weeks ago) to combat the amphipod population
Peppermint Shrimp

Parameters:
ALK: 9.3
CA: 420
MG: 1400
PH: 7.8
Salinity: 1.024
I don't test for nitrate or phosphate, i have zero signs of algae. I run pellets and this system has had a reputation for low nutrients. I don't suspect the nutrients are too low, as stated, my palys look great and several of my zoa colonies do as well.

saltyfilmfolks · Jun 6, 2016

Sorry bout the troubles bro.
If your not feeding enough, like asterinas, brittles serpents and hermits, I bet bugs will eat anything, but its not typical. I DO have the positively ID'ed zoa eating asterina and the dont eat my zoas.
Double check for nudis, Im sure you have. How old is the tank, and what lights are you using?
All zoas are not created equal as far as light and flow. I have several that ONLY grow under higher light, and have several in the Tsunami Zone at the top of my tank.

CodyRVA · Jun 6, 2016

saltyfilmfolks said:
Sorry bout the troubles bro.
If your not feeding enough, like asterinas, brittles serpents and hermits, I bet bugs will eat anything, but its not typical. I DO have the positively ID'ed zoa eating asterina and the dont eat my zoas.
Double check for nudis, Im sure you have. How old is the tank, and what lights are you using?
All zoas are not created equal as far as light and flow. I have several that ONLY grow under higher light, and have several in the Tsunami Zone at the top of my tank.

How do i go about checking for Nudis? I feel like thats a needle in a hay stack. I did have whelks, which i moved them to the sump, they are avid little cleaners, but i'm not sure they were the cause. I'm running an ATI 6 bulb T5. Lights dont seem to be an issue, there was some recession when i upgraded systems, some zoas took time to adapt, but they all did fine. I didnt have the large population of amphipods like i do now either. My mandarin is still new and very shy, i hope he gets his butt in gear, again... assuming thats the issue.

saltyfilmfolks · Jun 7, 2016

I'm a nerd I have several magnifying glasses and look at my favorite bugs and corals too a lot. Some folk use a black light flashlight and some say they see them glow under thier blue led as the Nudi's turn the same color as the coral.

It slightly possible I suppose there is a bacteria in the tank as it's the fresh cuts that melt. That's prob impossible to test for.
Try iodine after the cut.

Not a Zoas are equal I am finding as some are from shallows and some are from depth so they may be reacting differently to the parameters too. At 7.8 ph I would also wonder about you night time drop. No I don't chase numbers but it does help sometimes knowing. No an Po too. Fwiw my Po is a bit outta control right now and even thoug the SPS are growing like crazy the Zoas are not popping babies like they were before.

CodyRVA · Jun 7, 2016

How big could those nudis be? I'm pretty hardcore about checking over my system as well, can't say ive noticed any odd critters, but that doesn't mean they're not in there either.

When i did the sunny D test, i iodine dipped all three frags.

I run my fuge lights reverse at night, i've never tested my PH in the morning, but I'll try. I really don't think its a parameter issue, so many other colonies are doing just fine. I still think they're being overly irritated after being fragged. I'm using new blades, and i've sold oodles of frags of my own in the past, never had this problem. When they melt after fragging, they don't ever open back up, they close after being cut, remain closed, a few days later they're gone.

saltyfilmfolks · Jun 7, 2016

weird weird weird.
yea you would have seen bugs

CodyRVA · Jun 7, 2016

saltyfilmfolks said:
weird weird weird.
yea you would have seen bugs

The only bugs i ever see are those amphipods. At night time, its crazy, my sand bed literally looks like it's moving. When i cut a few fresh frags and put them in the sand bed, at night time i noticed several large amphipods all over those frags. That's really the only thing I can think of that could be causing the issue.

saltyfilmfolks · Jun 7, 2016

yea I suppose if they smell open flesh, esp if you have a large population

CodyRVA · Jun 7, 2016

saltyfilmfolks said:
yea I suppose if they smell open flesh, esp if you have a large population

That's what i'm thinking. The mandarin is still getting settled, though i'm not so sure it will even eat the larger pods. Might have to swap it out for a wrasse.

saltyfilmfolks · Jun 7, 2016

you know what they say, nothing fast. and the pod bloom should fade before either dents it.

CodyRVA · Jun 7, 2016

I'll keep you posted, hopefully I see some improvement here soon!

that Reef Guy · Jun 7, 2016

Bayer Dip All the Zoanthids (Will Take Care of any Nudi's, Pods, or any other Pests that may be on them).

Check for Nudi Eggs on the Polyps (White Spiral's - They are Big and Very Hard to Miss) Check when the Zoanthids are Closed Up When Lights are Out.

Add a 6 Line Wrasse to Help Eat the Pests too.

CodyRVA · Jun 7, 2016

that Reef Guy said:
Bayer Dip All the Zoanthids (Will Take Care of any Nudi's, Pods, or any other Pests that may be on them).

Check for Nudi Eggs on the Polyps (White Spiral's - They are Big and Very Hard to Miss) Check when the Zoanthids are Closed Up When Lights are Out.

Add a 6 Line Wrasse to Help Eat the Pests too.

Not sure how i'm going to dip huge rocks with zoa colonies on them. I looked up nudi eggs, i'll check tonight, but I can't recall seeing anything like this. I do find whelk eggs, i'll attach some pics later. The only reason I havent added a wrasse is because I have no cover for my system... and no desire to add one!

Psiber_Syn · Jun 7, 2016

Nudi eggs on rastas

CodyRVA · Jun 7, 2016

Yea thats what i saw when i google searched, definitely don't think i've got any of those, but i'll take a look see, you never know!

thefullgonzo · Jun 7, 2016

BAD GUY!!!!! I am going through the same problem!!!

CodyRVA · Jun 7, 2016

Well, i havent found any of those, or seen anything remotely like that so i dont think thats my problem, but the hell with that!

CodyRVA · Jun 7, 2016

Kind of hard to see with the frogspawn in the background, but in the center of the image, at the edge of the frogspawn, you can see small clear circles with white specks. I was told those are whelk eggs. They show up in little clusters, not spirals or anything.

This is an example of the closing up, in the watermelons, the white tip... This pic looks great, notice the zoas in the back look fine, the palys with the watermelons are doing great, but every now and again many zoas will close up and get those white tips. Not sure if this is just from being overly irritated by those amphipods or what....