6k Setup and Still Issues...

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

Wow lol love the thread but it’s like a pin ball machine. The poor tank is bouncing off of every possible bunker. We need to solve the first problem first Dinos, then move on to other less important subjects. If you don’t get the Dinos under control now, you won’t have to worry about is distilled better than rodi topic.

I agree there is lots of very very good info here, but with your tank being 60 days old, I would say wait it out. Now I would definitely add the uv sterilizer asap, and keep everything in check, normal water changes. Then after 90 days or 120 days see what’s going on. From a scientific point of view I have seen both sides. (Sorry I will have to go back and find the names I’m tired), but waiting it out isn’t all that bad of an idea. On the same front, waiting can be a massive tragedy and what not. But as I say this, (please know I say this from a scientific Stand point). Meaning I have had two identical tanks in a lab experiment. On one we waited and they pulled through and another one didn’t. On a separate experiment we acted fast solved it, but the other tank that we did not even change the water on also solved it’s own problem. So have some patience and really understand what some good people are expressing to you.

 

[stacksoner]

remember... do too many things at once and you cant attribute results to anyone one thing. zero nitrate is not especially a good thing when dealing with dinos.

either way, glad some things are turning around for you

+1 to this!! The most important thing that you can take away from fixing your tank's problems is KNOWLEDGE. If you tinker with too many things at once, you won't have any insights and will likely still be in the same place that you started.

 

[MrTang13]

Thanks for the post

I actually opted for a DOS instead of a UV sterilizer as my first course of measure. I just couldn’t figure out how I was going to fit the sterilizer in the cabinet space of the reefer.

I have the tank in the middle of my living room and don’t want to have any equipment outside.

Also, the tank has been performing incredibly smooth until this. I know the tank itself is young, but the rocks are incredibly established, Corailline covered live rock. That said, I don’t know if this is a maturity issue.

My theory based upon what I read in bulk reef supply and the data I have collected is that I have an excess of nutrients such as Nitrate and C02 that the Dino’s outcompete for.

My evidence is that..

1) before the blackout, with the Dino’s, nitrates were 0.
2) After the blackout, dinos melt but nitrates increase to 4 ppm.
3) During blackout, PH no longer increases which is what I assume was in part contributed to by the Dino’s photosynthesis
4) I live on the coast of NYC and likely have excess c02 in my house. The excess c02 probably contributed to the bloom.

I’m just wondering now if I should dose DinoX tomorrow once the 3 days are over.

Does anyone have experience with DinoX or know exactly what it is?

 

[Hemmdog]

Do not use distilled water because I highly doubt it is actually “distilled” then immediately bottled. Evian spelled backwards is Naive, they bottle tap water and sell it. They named it that because they knew people were stupid. Little did they know that product has saved millions of lives in 3rd world countries without clean water, but that’s for another day...

Get a rodi unit, I believe that is a larger portion of your problem than most people seem to think in this thread.

 

[MrTang13]

I’ll address that if this round of attempts fail. For one, because I don’t know I agree with that (the water has 0 phosphates) and also because some have advised to try an isolate variables.

 

[W1ngz]

Update: Now that Nitrates have raised further, I can’t see any trace of the algae at all.

Isn’t the conclusion then that the nitrates are being used by the Dino’s?

A lot of things consume small quantities of nitrates. I would assume dinos are one of many things that are. There is no conclusion here. You can't ignore the rest of the ecosystem and only focus on single cause/effect relationship.

I actually opted for a DOS instead of a UV sterilizer as my first course of measure.

That's all well and good, but what are you dosing?

I know the tank itself is young, but the rocks are incredibly established, Coralline covered live rock. That said, I don’t know if this is a maturity issue.

No. Just no. The system is a collective of rocks, sand, bacteria, environment, water, you, the fish, and everything else. Coraline on the rocks means absolutely nothing.

limiting c02 by elevating ph.

You've got the relationship backwards. You elevate pH by limiting CO2.

All in all, you need to slow down. You aren't going to solve a scourge like this in 48 hours, and there is no magic pill to make it go away. Prepare for several weeks of this, and then all of a sudden, they'll start to go away. If I recall, DinoX is only effective on a few species of dino. The microscope suggestion was a good one. Other species are best when left in dirty tanks, where they are out competed for nutrients by cyano or hair algae.

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

Have you looked at the green killing machine uv sterilizer? It has its own flow lamp, pump everything into one. They make a very small one and a large one. I have two for my 240 and they fit in my tank easily (the big ones) their small ones are half the size or smaller than than the ones rated at 100 gph. They have proven themselves with me and the local aquarium here has one on almost every tank even small 20 gallon ones. The large fit into my 40 breeder even with the skimmer returns and baffles.

 

[stacksoner]

Thanks for the post

I actually opted for a DOS instead of a UV sterilizer as my first course of measure. I just couldn’t figure out how I was going to fit the sterilizer in the cabinet space of the reefer.

I have the tank in the middle of my living room and don’t want to have any equipment outside.

Also, the tank has been performing incredibly smooth until this. I know the tank itself is young, but the rocks are incredibly established, Corailline covered live rock. That said, I don’t know if this is a maturity issue.

My theory based upon what I read in bulk reef supply and the data I have collected is that I have an excess of nutrients such as Nitrate and C02 that the Dino’s outcompete for.

My evidence is that..

1) before the blackout, with the Dino’s, nitrates were 0.
2) After the blackout, dinos melt but nitrates increase to 4 ppm.
3) During blackout, PH no longer increases which is what I assume was in part contributed to by the Dino’s photosynthesis
4) I live on the coast of NYC and likely have excess c02 in my house. The excess c02 probably contributed to the bloom.

I’m just wondering now if I should dose DinoX tomorrow once the 3 days are over.

Does anyone have experience with DinoX or know exactly what it is?

Here's how I got the Pentair UV Sterilizer in my reefer sump if it helps.

 

[MrTang13]

Hello,

Have you looked at the green killing machine uv sterilizer? It has its own flow lamp, pump everything into one. They make a very small one and a large one. I have two for my 240 and they fit in my tank easily (the big ones) their small ones are half the size or smaller than than the ones rated at 100 gph. They have proven themselves with me and the local aquarium here has one on almost every tank even small 20 gallon ones. The large fit into my 40 breeder even with the skimmer returns and baffles.

No, I’ll check it out for sure, thanks!

I watched a Bulk Reef Supply docuseries where the host argued that even for small tanks, the UV sterilizer needs to be physically large to achieve an adequate time of exposure. I was going to get the pentair, but I seriously have no idea how I’m going to fit another device in my sump, let alone something that big.

 

[MrTang13]

Here's how I got the Pentair UV Sterilizer in my reefer sump if it helps.

Wow, that’s tight. I guess I could probably make it work. I was hoping to have everything look somewhat orderly.

Here is a picture of what I have now: https://imgur.com/a/hlRd5xb

The DOS I’m putting on an acrylic riser on the right where underneath will live the resovoir

 

[boxed_reef]

problem solving is just a part of this hobby... love it or hate it. There are many different approaches and opinions. Lots of great advice already given in this thread. Increased PH certainly may help. But I think there are better ways to accomplish raising PH than just increasing alk/buffers. I have high Co2 in my house as well, PH would range 7.7-8ish. I added a Co2 scrubber to my skimmer and now my PH stays 8.15-8.3. People also have success running the skimmer air line to pull fresh air from outside. I maintain my alk at 8dkh dosing 2 part and kalkwasser. Kalkwasser has a great PH boost, but don’t over do it

 

[MrTang13]

problem solving is just a part of this hobby... love it or hate it. There are many different approaches and opinions. Lots of great advice already given in this thread. Increased PH certainly may help. But I think there are better ways to accomplish raising PH than just increasing alk/buffers. I have high Co2 in my house as well, PH would range 7.7-8ish. I added a Co2 scrubber to my skimmer and now my PH stays 8.15-8.3. People also have success running the skimmer air line to pull fresh air from outside. I maintain my alk at 8dkh dosing 2 part and kalkwasser. Kalkwasser has a great PH boost, but don’t over do it

Was setting up the c02 scrubber a pain and how often do you need to replace the filter?

Also, is the ph boost of Kalkwasser more long lasting than the ph booth of two part?

 

[sde1500]

One thing that is for sure across anyone’s tank, reef pests and problems could care less how many gadgets are on a tank, or how much money you have sunk into it. The only thing that matters is the steps you take in caring for the tank, and how you address issues as they arise. For one, stop worrying about the nitrates you’re seeing. You want nitrates. Aim for 5 ppm. Zero is starving the tank, and also likely why you are having the Dino problem now. I think you’re on the right path. Nothing to do now until you unwrap the tank and get things normalized again and see if they come back or not.

 

[boxed_reef]

Was setting up the c02 scrubber a pain and how often do you need to replace the filter?

Also, is the ph boost of Kalkwasser more long lasting than the ph booth of two part?

setting up co2 scrubber is super simple. I actually just used a spare brs carbon reactor I had laying around (just changed to barb fitting). BRS has a co2 scrubber for like $35. I change the media every week. It will really depend on co2 levels. I also went through it faster when it was first set up, don’t get discouraged if the first couple fills don’t last long. I get my soda lime from the link below. I go through a little more than 3 pounds a month, so monthly cost is around $10.
https://www.shopmedvet.com/product/soda-lime-3-lb-bag/anesthesia-respiratory
And yes kalkwasser has a higher PH boost than 2 part. I use fully saturated kalk on a dosing pump every hour.

 

[stacksoner]

Wow, that’s tight. I guess I could probably make it work. I was hoping to have everything look somewhat orderly.

Here is a picture of what I have now: https://imgur.com/a/hlRd5xb

The DOS I’m putting on an acrylic riser on the right where underneath will live the resovoir

Lol feel you on having a chaotic looking sump. I don't think anyone particularly prefers having their sump looking like a mad scientist's lab. Everyone's sump starts out looking like yours. But after you get the UV sterilizer, you're gonna learn about the wonderful world of chaeto and having a refugium, and the benefits of C02 scrubbers, and the stability that dosing systems offer...

 

[brandon429]

Glad the thread has got momentum. You'll have more than enough coverage now, plans are good.

Summaries
Blending too many methods and mentors. Pick one, see it though, then move on. Combining sources is recipe for coral bleaching

The UV doesn't have to be seen as permanent. Wheel it into your garage and let it sit under a tarp till needed. When it's installed, it's for battle, won't be required forever.
If it sits on the floor like a pond sterilizer might, hoses all vadered out front then it's fumigation look for a while/tolerate and buy oversized

Temporary run, ace sleeve resounding theme here is uv


Vectoring is your sole cause. If you added nitrate, or took it away, dinos would not appear in my reef. They're classed as requisite hitchhikers. No form of co2 deficiency or excess causes a dinos bloom although any change in steady state can, might affect them. Initial results are not the same sustained.

You need to insert a one week absolute pause, back to normal reefing before you dose dino x. It can be harsh, separate it from current methods and give your tank one week running with or without dinos before dosing it, which I'd never recommend.

Be leery of combining methods into custom guess runs. There are certain steps known to always be coral safe, this is being ventured away from in the compounding although I'm the one who largely created the concern lol and appreciate the willingness to act on a potential tank invader. Merely the willingness to do something will take you far, but pick one caddy. Then fire him or her and choose another, blend no caddies nor their advice/heads up prediction.

 

[ReefyB]

Have you tried adding a tiger/fighting conch? It like a ‘roomba’ for the tank. Great way of getting through the ‘uglies’ stage without it actually getting ugly. I haven’t seen anything those guys won’t seem to eat but there not the greatest at getting stuff on the rock because there not the best climbers (although I did catch one of mine almost 12 inches up the glass once lol). I’ve also placed him on the rocks a couple times to clear a section before he rolls back down on the sand. Hardest working CuC in the business IMO.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

I am concerned you have some conflicting information on how the PH cycle works in the reef aquarium. Every reef aquarium will experience a lowering of PH at night due to photosynthesis as the algae, coral, and fish respire at night this it the time that CO2 increases making the water more acidic. During the day the algae, and coral and other photosynthetic organism uptake Co2, carbonates, magnesium and other elements and respire O2 as part of the respiration and transpiration process and as a result the water becomes more basic.

One of the simple ways to combat the PH swing is with a reverse day light refugium and marine algae. While the light system is on in the display during the day the light is off in the refugium. The refugium or sump will have the light on at night when the display light is off. This goes a long ways in leveling out the PH swings that naturally occur in most home aquariums. Some times other methods are used but are more complex than the natural method of reverse daylight refugiums or sumps.

You seem to not understand the relationship between the many communities of organisms that make the system work. That is okay to an extent as most of us are in awe of what makes a living reef function. But a basic understanding will save you money and mistakes. Brandon and others gave you an answer as to why some of the dinos work the way they do. The elevation of Nitrate and Phosphorous is indicated in many tanks as a way to combat the dinos that many dread. Trying to run any system devoid of Nitrate and Phosphorous is a mistake since many of the natural communities of organisms need them to survive and create balance in the system. The only other way to run a ULNS (ultra low nutrient system) is to carbon dose and that has its own set of problems. Do not start down the road of trying to run a ULNS system until you have a handle on the systems you are affecting. I have often seen whole tanks crash using this type of system. You can read the forums here and find out the outcome of many of them.

Get a better handle on the basics first before attempting more difficult to handle systems. Just a suggestion from someone who made a living in the aquarium industry for over 25 years. Good luck and move slowly with changes and you will survive to become a long term aquarium owner.

A good U.V. is a good investment for many reasons. You do not have to run them all the time but if you have no quarantine system you might think of getting one. TMC makes smaller foot print U.V. sterilizers that work great. Tropic Marine Centre is what TMC stands for. An internet search will turn up a few vendors who offer them. American Aquarium Products is one located in Oregon.

 

[Burrito]

Wow, that’s tight. I guess I could probably make it work. I was hoping to have everything look somewhat orderly.

Here is a picture of what I have now: https://imgur.com/a/hlRd5xb

The DOS I’m putting on an acrylic riser on the right where underneath will live the resovoir

Here was my solution after setting it up. Ran like this for over a week before I got it into my already crowded sump. Results!

 

[MrTang13]

I am concerned you have some conflicting information on how the PH cycle works in the reef aquarium. Every reef aquarium will experience a lowering of PH at night due to photosynthesis as the algae, coral, and fish respire at night this it the time that CO2 increases making the water more acidic. During the day the algae, and coral and other photosynthetic organism uptake Co2, carbonates, magnesium and other elements and respire O2 as part of the respiration and transpiration process and as a result the water becomes more basic.

One of the simple ways to combat the PH swing is with a reverse day light refugium and marine algae. While the light system is on in the display during the day the light is off in the refugium. The refugium or sump will have the light on at night when the display light is off. This goes a long ways in leveling out the PH swings that naturally occur in most home aquariums. Some times other methods are used but are more complex than the natural method of reverse daylight refugiums or sumps.

You seem to not understand the relationship between the many communities of organisms that make the system work. That is okay to an extent as most of us are in awe of what makes a living reef function. But a basic understanding will save you money and mistakes. Brandon and others gave you an answer as to why some of the dinos work the way they do. The elevation of Nitrate and Phosphorous is indicated in many tanks as a way to combat the dinos that many dread. Trying to run any system devoid of Nitrate and Phosphorous is a mistake since many of the natural communities of organisms need them to survive and create balance in the system. The only other way to run a ULNS (ultra low nutrient system) is to carbon dose and that has its own set of problems. Do not start down the road of trying to run a ULNS system until you have a handle on the systems you are affecting. I have often seen whole tanks crash using this type of system. You can read the forums here and find out the outcome of many of them.

Get a better handle on the basics first before attempting more difficult to handle systems. Just a suggestion from someone who made a living in the aquarium industry for over 25 years. Good luck and move slowly with changes and you will survive to become a long term aquarium owner.

A good U.V. is a good investment for many reasons. You do not have to run them all the time but if you have no quarantine system you might think of getting one. TMC makes smaller foot print U.V. sterilizers that work great. Tropic Marine Centre is what TMC stands for. An internet search will turn up a few vendors who offer them. American Aquarium Products is one located in Oregon.

I had mentioned in an earlier post that I was struggling to understand why I was still seeing the pH swings during a blackout, not that I didn’t understand the blackout.

I am aware of pH swings as a consequence of photosynthesis but I would have guessed that these swings would stop during a 3 day blackout.

It seems like the cycle continues to some extent in the absense of light. Would love to know why.

I don’t have a refugium, as shown in the pictures, so lighting the sump won’t do much.

My plan of attack is three prong, to do a 3 day blackout, elevate the ph by increasing alkalinity via the new dosing pump, and to DOS microbacter 7. I’m not sure why this is a bad approach or you seem offended by it.

I’m opting to not use a UV sterilizer as my research and what I’ve seen in more technical posts is that the Dino’s live on surfaces, outside of the water column. Supposedly UV sterilizer can do absolutely nothing for some strains.

For right now, resource rejection with a ph elevation has been the single source of consistent advise ive received among reliable sources.

Adding Nitrates and Phosphates goes against this concept and contradicts Ryan and Randy here:https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/Week-48-Solving-your-reef-tanks-algae-problems-forever/

For anyone that’s going through this themselves, be warned there is a ton of conflicting advice out there and to find consensus amongst sources you trust. You can see undeniable proof of this earlier in the thread we’re people begin blaming the issue on the TDS in distilled water...