6k Setup and Still Issues...

[sde1500]

I currently don't have the ability to watch that video, so I'm going on some assumptions based on the title involving algae. However, dinos aren't algae. They thrive in super low nutrient environments.

 

[MrTang13]

Update: I also am adding 20,000 copepods to seed the tank. Lol...

 

[MrTang13]

The video

I currently don't have the ability to watch that video, so I'm going on some assumptions based on the title involving algae. However, dinos aren't algae. They thrive in super low nutrient environments.

Dino’s are a subgroup of Algae. The video specifically references Dinos.

 

[MrTang13]

Update:

Hour 70 of blackout.

20k copepods added
Phytoplankton dosed
Microbacter 7 dosed

Skimmer now off.

Soon the DOS goes into effect.

 

[MrTang13]

I am concerned you have some conflicting information on how the PH cycle works in the reef aquarium. Every reef aquarium will experience a lowering of PH at night due to photosynthesis as the algae, coral, and fish respire at night this it the time that CO2 increases making the water more acidic. During the day the algae, and coral and other photosynthetic organism uptake Co2, carbonates, magnesium and other elements and respire O2 as part of the respiration and transpiration process and as a result the water becomes more basic.

One of the simple ways to combat the PH swing is with a reverse day light refugium and marine algae. While the light system is on in the display during the day the light is off in the refugium. The refugium or sump will have the light on at night when the display light is off. This goes a long ways in leveling out the PH swings that naturally occur in most home aquariums. Some times other methods are used but are more complex than the natural method of reverse daylight refugiums or sumps.

You seem to not understand the relationship between the many communities of organisms that make the system work. That is okay to an extent as most of us are in awe of what makes a living reef function. But a basic understanding will save you money and mistakes. Brandon and others gave you an answer as to why some of the dinos work the way they do. The elevation of Nitrate and Phosphorous is indicated in many tanks as a way to combat the dinos that many dread. Trying to run any system devoid of Nitrate and Phosphorous is a mistake since many of the natural communities of organisms need them to survive and create balance in the system. The only other way to run a ULNS (ultra low nutrient system) is to carbon dose and that has its own set of problems. Do not start down the road of trying to run a ULNS system until you have a handle on the systems you are affecting. I have often seen whole tanks crash using this type of system. You can read the forums here and find out the outcome of many of them.

Get a better handle on the basics first before attempting more difficult to handle systems. Just a suggestion from someone who made a living in the aquarium industry for over 25 years. Good luck and move slowly with changes and you will survive to become a long term aquarium owner.

A good U.V. is a good investment for many reasons. You do not have to run them all the time but if you have no quarantine system you might think of getting one. TMC makes smaller foot print U.V. sterilizers that work great. Tropic Marine Centre is what TMC stands for. An internet search will turn up a few vendors who offer them. American Aquarium Products is one located in Oregon.

Here is more information that contradicts your logic on the relationship between nitrates, phosphates, and Dino’s.

“nuisance dinoflagellate blooms is to put a stop to the problem that allowed them to arise in the first place—excess nutrients. As mentioned earlier, the safest and surest course of action here is to increase competitive pressure on them by increasing the densities of beneficial algal species. The enlightened aquarist can carry out a highly effective multi-pronged attack with the use of high-end live algal products such as Ocean Magik. This product incorporates a blend of several species of algae that actually nourish phytoplanktivorous aquarium animals (such as many corals, clams, sea cucumbers, etc.) as they sequester nutrients such as ammonia, nitrate, phosphate and silicate directly from the aquarium system water.”

Source: https://www.algaebarn.com/blog/phyt...croalgae-to-control-nuisance-dinoflagellates/

 

[sde1500]

Here is more information that contradicts your logic on the relationship between nitrates, phosphates, and Dino’s.

“nuisance dinoflagellate blooms is to put a stop to the problem that allowed them to arise in the first place—excess nutrients. As mentioned earlier, the safest and surest course of action here is to increase competitive pressure on them by increasing the densities of beneficial algal species. The enlightened aquarist can carry out a highly effective multi-pronged attack with the use of high-end live algal products such as Ocean Magik. This product incorporates a blend of several species of algae that actually nourish phytoplanktivorous aquarium animals (such as many corals, clams, sea cucumbers, etc.) as they sequester nutrients such as ammonia, nitrate, phosphate and silicate directly from the aquarium system water.”

Source: https://www.algaebarn.com/blog/phyt...croalgae-to-control-nuisance-dinoflagellates/

Not to throw shade at them, because they are a good company. But you are arguing with someone attempting to help you through their own free will, and at no compensation to them, by using an article written by someone with a vested interest in you buying their method.

 

[MrTang13]

Not to throw shade at them, because they are a good company. But you are arguing with someone attempting to help you through their own free will, and at no compensation to them, by using an article written by someone with a vested interest in you buying their method.

Whether or not the product does what it claims to, their still suggesting that nitrates and phosphates fuel Dino’s. I can’t find one credible source that suggests the other.

I am posting updates and am outlining my thoughts so whomever else goes through this later, can retrace my steps. The hardest part so far has been dealing with conflicting advise.

 

[Burrito]

How are you sure it’s Dino? Have you tried a cheap $20 microscope yet as advised earlier?

There is about 10k post or something like that in the Dino thread. Different strains, only identifiable by microscope respond to different recovery strategies.

You opted not to use UV at all based on a Brs video (I love brs btw) but if you have ostosis Dino strains then UV will almost certainly eradicate them. (Took 8 days for me). Other strains have other methods.

You might not have Dino’s at all...

 

[sde1500]

Whether or not the product does what it claims to, their still suggesting that nitrates and phosphates fuel Dino’s. I can’t find one credible source that suggests the other.

I am posting updates and am outlining my thoughts so whomever else goes through this later, can retrace my steps. The hardest part so far has been dealing with conflicting advise.

For your reading pleasure: https://academic.oup.com/plankt/article/27/2/159/1579687

But some of the reasons for conflicting info is below, there isn't just one pest, one cause, and one cure available. Many people have different experiences, and thus different information to contribute.

How are you sure it’s Dino? Have you tried a cheap $20 microscope yet as advised earlier?

There is about 10k post or something like that in the Dino thread. Different strains, only identifiable by microscope respond to different recovery strategies.

You opted not to use UV at all based on a Brs video (I love brs btw) but if you have ostosis Dino strains then UV will almost certainly eradicate them. (Took 8 days for me). Other strains have other methods.

You might not have Dino’s at all...

 

[Rjukan]

How are you sure it’s Dino? Have you tried a cheap $20 microscope yet as advised earlier?

There is about 10k post or something like that in the Dino thread. Different strains, only identifiable by microscope respond to different recovery strategies.

You opted not to use UV at all based on a Brs video (I love brs btw) but if you have ostosis Dino strains then UV will almost certainly eradicate them. (Took 8 days for me). Other strains have other methods.

You might not have Dino’s at all...

^^ This. In the pictures linked early in the thread I didn't see definitive evidence of dino. Forgive me if it's mentioned already but what's your clean up crew consist of?

 

[MrTang13]

For your reading pleasure: https://academic.oup.com/plankt/article/27/2/159/1579687

But some of the reasons for conflicting info is below, there isn't just one pest, one cause, and one cure available. Many people have different experiences, and thus different information to contribute.

Where in this study does it suggest that Dino’s thrive in a low nutrient conditions? It’s a technical piece and I’m struggling to get through it.

 

[MrTang13]

^^ This. In the pictures linked early in the thread I didn't see definitive evidence of dino. Forgive me if it's mentioned already but what's your clean up crew consist of?

I am fairly certain it’s dinos because of the observed behavior. It would disappear at night but by the end of the photoperiod I would have this snotty looking substance cover the sand and the live rock. Within the snot were the bubbles I’ve read so much about.

 

[MrTang13]

Also, clean up crew so far consists of blue legged hermits, Mexican turbos, and an assortment of other small snails.

I plan on getting some emerald crabs and shrimps soon. Each time my LFS has been sold out.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

@MrTang13
Sorry to have somehow offended you. I was just trying to answer some of your questions and provide an overview of why we have PH swings in reef aquaria.

I will not comment again as I was less than helpful.

Wish you all the best in your aquarium adventures.

 

[DSC reef]

I am fairly certain it’s dinos because of the observed behavior. It would disappear at night but by the end of the photoperiod I would have this snotty looking substance cover the sand and the live rock. Within the snot were the bubbles I’ve read so much about.

Diatoms can also disappear then reappear after the photo period. If your going to extremes then I'd suggest a microscope to see what your fighting. Just throwing this out there, if your not using RODI then I would have your source water tested even if its distilled as silicates fuel diatoms.

 

[W1ngz]

I had mentioned in an earlier post that I was struggling to understand why I was still seeing the pH swings during a blackout, not that I didn’t understand the blackout.

I am aware of pH swings as a consequence of photosynthesis but I would have guessed that these swings would stop during a 3 day blackout.

It seems like the cycle continues to some extent in the absense of light. Would love to know why.

Most likely because you and anyone else is leaving the house during the day, reducing CO2 in the air, which raises the pH.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

you know your a junkie when you read the tittle of this thread and think "only 6k?"

with time, research and patience your tank will get better. hang in there!!

 

[stacksoner]

I like OP! Not afraid to fact check people and relentless.

That said, there is no shortage of reputable companies who shamelessly sell bottled cures to whatever problem you want solved.

This universe is relatively small and unfortunately not formally catalogued on the web. There are good people on this forum who are trying to make you a great reefer. A microscope is a legit great investment because my bacterial outbreak is indistinguishable from Tim's cyano explosion, which both look and act like Steve's dinoflagellate hell, which turned out to be chrysophytes when examined under a microscope

 

[Hemmdog]

Where in this study does it suggest that Dino’s thrive in a low nutrient conditions? It’s a technical piece and I’m struggling to get through it.

I found this to be rather light reading and somewhat brief.

 

[VR28man]

Good thread. Only two comments:

Re: the very first post: the problem seems to be a biology problem (New tank without any equilibrium). No amount of money will solve this problem; it’s just a matter of time.

(Solving the specific dino problem is a separate issue. I have nothing to add to lots of really good advice ready given;good luck OP!!!)

Re: distilled water. The distilled water in plastic jugs at my local grocer (Harris Teeter) has 0 tds and is perfectly good reef water, based on an icp test.