a thought on euphillia

cmac330 · Nov 9, 2015

Also, bubble coral does not come from the genus Euphyllia

Wiz · Nov 9, 2015

Thankyou for pointing out the octospawn which i csn see the difference in now. Where frog seemsto have multiple tips that are on there own little "arm" and protrude from the main arm. The octo seems to have multiple tips that are connected straight to the main arm giving the arm a pimply look. However i still believe the others are easier to tell apart than yould think. And i dont believe any of them "look like a cristata" unless its a cristata. These are easily the most unique in my opinion.

cmac330 said:
Octospawn is in fact not made up but is Euphyllia yaeyamaensis, however neither of yours are this. I believe the second picture is in fact a frogspawn and as it acclimates and gets healthier in your tank will tank on more of the frogspawn features. In my experience newly acclimated frogspawn (Euphyllia divisa/paradivisa) do not always look like we expect them to as they tend not to fully extend. The first I believe is a hammer (Euphyllia ancora/paraancora) that possibly just grew a couple extra tips. However, species identification is difficult because technical identification is done by using the skeleton. http://coral.aims.gov.au/factsheet.jsp?speciesCode=0499 you can see in the pictures on the aims site that frogspawn can even look like Euphyllia cristata (what you refer to as grape coral) when they are retracted or under different lighting. In the end all Euphyllia really have similar care and so as long as you are happy with the specimen and like how it looks, it really doesn't matter the species. Give the two some time and if they acclimate well you will be better able to judge which species they are.

Wiz · Nov 9, 2015

I can see the difference between frog and octofrog now.

but that last pic looks like a frog to me. Even though it has fat tips like a hammer, every arm has multiple tips which makes it a frog in my opinion. The multiple tips take the hammer look away. The pic looks like a pile of eggs which screems frog to me.

cmac330 said:
In the first photo is yaeyamaensis next to paradivisa at my local store. The second photo is a frogspawn with hammer shaped tips I refer to as a frammer.

cmac330 · Nov 9, 2015

Sorry I should have been more clear, what I said look almost like cristata were the ones in the aims pictures in the link. Generically speaking they can be identified by looking at the polyps but health of the coral, flow, lighting and combinations of these things can affect polyp extension and therefore the visual representation of the polyps making them look like one when they are the other. If it helps I believe your last picture is almost certainly a frogspawn as the shading of the green with the definitive purple tips is a commonly traded piece frogspawn. This combined with the appearance of the tips is fairly indicative to me. The one before is much more difficult to tell in my opinion.

Also I have owned a cristata and have only found these to look nice under incredibly high lighting (they were under 6500k plasmas for six hours and then looked nice under the actinics when the plasma shut off).

cmac330 · Nov 9, 2015

As far as I know the scientific community does not recognize hybrids of this genus, however this is just based on my reading and could be wrong. So at this point I say to each his own, this piece was purchased from unique corals as a frammer and is really the only reason I call it this.

This is a really good read on the genus:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/10/corals

Wiz · Nov 9, 2015

It was sold to me as frog.which upsets me because it does not look like frog to me. It does not have the bouncy pile of eggs look. Which the name inspires. It has multiple arms with a single tip. More than arms with multiple tips. Although it may be called a frog in my eyes it is not.

cmac330 said:
If it helps I believe your last picture is almost certainly a frogspawn as the shading of the green with the definitive purple tips is a commonly traded piece frogspawn. This combined with the appearance of the tips is fairly indicative to me.

cmac330 · Nov 9, 2015

I would give it some time, in my experience this genus can take as long as 6 months to really reach they're potential. My green with purple tips pictured above looked similar to yours when it was a single head (it also would only extend out about an inch) but as it has grown out quite nicely and the tips reach out as far as 4".

cmac330 · Nov 9, 2015

Anyways, I hope this helps!

Wiz · Nov 9, 2015

Heres the thing. Although genus is important scientifically, what's important to a hobbiest is look. When you sell me a "frogspawn" it ought to look like frog eggs. When you sell me a "hammer" it ought to look like hammers. So genus is not as important to me as physical characteristics. Does that make sense? If I sold you a torch and it was of that genus but looked like a bubble coral wouldn't that bother you? When some one says they are trading me a frog, I want a pile of eggs. This does not look like "frogspawn" to me. Even if its genus is I'm not happy with it.

Wiz · Nov 9, 2015

When Ihear frogspawn I do not expect to see arms.

Wiz · Nov 9, 2015

Maybe I'm crazy. Lol with all these pics its getting harder to argue my point. Lol that last pic messed me up. Frog tips on long arms. Where do I go from there. Lol ok I guess ill just start calling them all euphillia.

Wiz · Nov 9, 2015

Thanks for talkin this out with me. I can see now its not as simple as I would like it to be. Lol

cmac330 · Nov 9, 2015

No problem, we are all in this together and we all have different experiences. I'm always glad to help as this is likely my favorite genus of coral. And, for the record, I completely understand your frustration with your piece. Frogspawn is not a scientific term, it is a hobbyist term that refers to the appearance of the polyp and when selling pieces I believe the seller has a responsibility to accurately describe the condition of the piece more than just simply stating green and purple frogspawn. In your case I believe that you may not have received the healthiest possible piece or that it came from water quality very different from your own (both things that you should have been made aware of). Personally I try to get to know the source that I buy corals from. If an online source I look at other peoples buying experience and what received pieces look like versus what is shown on the website. For local sources I spend a significant amount of time learning what salts they use and what parameters they keep as this helps me better understand how the piece might fair differently in my tank. For online Euphyllia I really like unique corals, prices are fair not great but fair, and the specimen always looks as good as the picture in my experience. However, it looks like you have been in the hobby a while and probably already have some experience with this and may have just been slightly cheated this time.

cmcoker · Nov 9, 2015

Wiz said:
Are there any arms that only have a single tip? Or does every arm have multiple tips?

Not all have multiple tips. I have a frogspawn in there also, they look different

ReefMadScientist · Nov 9, 2015

I agree the differences are a bit complex to identify. As @Sabellafella mentioned, there are weird morphs where you will see hammer-like tips, frogspawn, and long torch strands as well.

evolved · Nov 11, 2015

This feels familiar to me...
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/id-please.217132/#post-2497735

Wiz · Nov 11, 2015

Still think selling these as frog or hammer is misleading. Just dont have an answer

evolved said:
This feels familiar to me...
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/id-please.217132/#post-2497735

ritter6788 · Nov 11, 2015

All common hobby nicknames. Names like frogspawn, hammer, anchor carry no weight or value in classification. You can call it green bubbly tentacle coral and there's nothing wrong with that either. Those names are just nicknames someone used to describe the coral and they stuck. Even scientific name can be impossible with a cross section of the skeleton and a look at it under a microscope. Most of these run near the same price and require the same care so I wouldn't consider it misleading if you ended up with a hammer that someone else called a frogspawn.

Wiz · Nov 11, 2015

Its nisleading because if you call it frogspawn it aught to look like eggs. If you call it a hammer it should look like one. Wouldn't you be upset if you blue tubbs were green?

ritter6788 · Nov 11, 2015

Wiz said:
Its nisleading because if you call it frogspawn it aught to look like eggs. If you call it a hammer it should look like one. Wouldn't you be upset if you blue tubbs were green?

Yes but if I bought Tubs blues I would like to see a pic of them. Same with Euphyllia. There's frogspawn I like and frogspawn I don't. I wouldn't buy any rely on someone sight unseen to send me the right thing no matter what.

It would be misleading if someone showed you a pic of one and sent another but if you bought a frogspawn without seeing it and the tips were slightly different I wouldn't consider it someone misleading you.