I’ve done blackouts, peroxide, raising nutrients, manual removal, raising temperature and none had an impact. I did start dosing phyto and that actually seems to be slowing the spread so I’m going to run with that until my new tank is setup
The only thing I turned down was MB7?? I don’t remember hearing about Dr. Tims so I’ll look into that but I did blackouts, pods (which do see to be working so far), and I’ve read the Dinos forum and tried a few recommendations I’ve found in there as well.Don’t take offense at this... but you’ve said no to all advice given so far (dr Tim’s program, blackouts, MB7, pods, reading the extensive research found in the Dino forum, etc)
Sounds like you are waiting for someone to tell you to tear down the tank and start over.
So just tear it down and start over
So I run my tank at 1 nitrate and undetectable phosphates and I had great success with dosing live bacteria, specifically Microbacter Clean with Microbacter7, to get rid of dinos. I didn't use UV, I didn't do blackouts, I didn't raise my N and P. I started a thread describing my approach and if you would be willing to try it I would like to know if it works for you.
Since my phyto dosing seems to be working for now I plan on sticking with that for the time being. With that being said, I’m definitely going to look into Microbacter in case phyto stops working. After doing a quick read on Dr. Tims it is essentially the same idea as Microbacter so I’m curious as to how/why it works when the consensus is low n and p tends to promote the spread of Dinos. I’ll check out your thread for sure!
+1Don’t take offense at this... but you’ve said no to all advice given so far (dr Tim’s program, blackouts, MB7, pods, reading the extensive research found in the Dino forum, etc)
Sounds like you are waiting for someone to tell you to tear down the tank and start over.
So just tear it down and start over
I gotta respectfully disagree. The only advice I disagreed with was Microbacter but after doing some quick research it seems like it’s definitely an option. I’ve tried most of the recommended options and have since found one that seems to be working. Never did I say anyone’s advice was garbage
I don’t think I’ve had a negative tone towards anyone. Looking back my response towards vibrant or Microbacter may have come off the wrong way but I certainly didn’t mean any offense. I did agree with your photoperiod suggestion but i do apologize if anything i said came off the wrong way. I’m all for suggesting ideas on here
I started dosing NeoPhos and Neonitro. Raised P to .12 and No3 (accidentally) to around 60. Only filtration I have right now is a poly pad and some floss. I don’t have a skimmer since the tank is too small. I feed about 1/5 a cube per day to my two fish. Haven’t tested No3 or Po4 very recently but the only thing that’s changed since then is my dosing of phyto
So what’s your plan? Because I can’t think of anything else to try that wasn’t already mentioned aside from nuking the tank and starting over. I would suggest that you immediately add both copepods and phyto, stop doing water changes, leave the sand alone, as soon as you stir up the sand bed they will start to take hold again. Don’t scrape/clean the glass and let the algae on the glass outcompete the dinos. You will also see the copepods starting to eat the algae on the glass, but dinos too. You mentioned (I think) that the dinos poison the pods? I haven’t ever noticed that as a problem, considering the overwhelming numbers of the pods when you add enough. Do all of those things and then get your nutrients up and your problem may go away or at least make it more manageable.
www.bulkreefsupply.com
Thank you for that! While I do have an upgrade planned, I really would like to eradicate the Dinos so they don’t transfer on any frags. My plan for right now is to continue dosing phyto since it seems to be working. Also going to order some pods and give that a shot as well. In the beginning I thought my tank was too small to fit a UV sterilizer but I found an IM one that should work. Just needs to return to stock lol. Also good call on not scraping the glass. As much as it will drive me crazy I’ll refrain from doing that.So what’s your plan? Because I can’t think of anything else to try that wasn’t already mentioned aside from nuking the tank and starting over. I would suggest that you immediately add both copepods and phyto, stop doing water changes, leave the sand alone, as soon as you stir up the sand bed they will start to take hold again. Don’t scrape/clean the glass and let the algae on the glass outcompete the dinos. You will also see the copepods starting to eat the algae on the glass, but dinos too. You mentioned (I think) that the dinos poison the pods? I haven’t ever noticed that as a problem, considering the overwhelming numbers of the pods when you add enough. Do all of those things and then get your nutrients up and your problem may go away or at least make it more manageable.
I swear by the Dr Tim’s Dino program though as I tried EVERYTHING and the thing that finally kicked them was Dr Tim’s and everything else that I mentioned.
Hopefully you try all or at least some of this. Usually the suggestions on here are a result of something that worked for us. The trick is, finding what will work for your specific eco system and your specific species of dinos.
Good luck though! You can fix this and you will learn a ton in the process. Just be open to advice if asking for help. I learned quickly in this hobby that there is so much to be learned from other reefer’s mistakes and successes.
Remember, we don’t even know how much we don’t know about this hobby. Listen to those who’ve been in the hobby for many years. Chances are they’ve encountered every pest, algae, parasite, disease, equipment failure, water chemistry issues, and so on. A wealth of knowledge to draw from. That is what I did when I first started and what I continue to do.
I would also encourage you to think through all of the most common issues that can happen in this hobby and do what you can now to take preventative action, or at the very least, have the tools/supplies at the ready and deploy the solution at the first sign of trouble.
Also, it’s important to remember that there is rarely a quick fix for Dinos or any problem we encounter for that matter. Patience is key. Rarely does the problem take over instantly if it is algae or dinos, pests, etc (not talking about toxins, overdoses, equipment failure, all of which can create problems instantly) If it took a few months to get that way, it will probably take a few months or more to fix. Try a solution and stick with it for awhile before changing directions and trying something new. If you see progress, stick with it!
I remember my battle with Dinos. I started a second Tank way back after a year of success with my first tank. The problem was, I started everything to fight high nutrients before my nutrients were even high or even a problem. I started a large refugium, a GFO reactor, and I started using microbacter clean to try and skip the ugly phase.
The result? My ecosystem was not established enough, and there wasn’t enough good bacteria and large enough fauna population to combat anything really at that point, combined with zero nitrates and phosphates and not enough feeding, I had a Dino problem take hold.
I tried everything that I could think of, along with a deep research dive into all the research on dinos and forums of everyone else’s attempts until I found what worked. It was Dr Tim’s Dino program (see link at bottom of post and picture of instructions) which includes dosing “refresh” for two days during a two day blackout, then when my lights came back on I dosed waste away for the recommended amount of days, as well as following the schedule laid out for water changes. I also added a small UV canister filter- I couldn’t afford a high grade unit so I found a $100 9w UV canister filter and just took out all of the media trays/sponges.
SunSun Hw303B 370GPH Pro Canister Filter Kit with 9-watt UV Sterilizer
I also added pods/phyto. Like ALOT of pods. For a 80 gal system I added 4 jars of Eco Pids and 2 jars of 5280 pods to my refugium and to the DT directly with all of the pumps turned off and at night. Drop the pods in and let them sink for 30 minutes and find a home in the rocks and sand. In a few days you’ll see little white specks on your glass. If you look closely, you can see them running around on your glass eating algae. Don’t scrape the glass though! The phytoplankton doesn’t eat the dinos, but the pods will eat the phyto and the Dino’s! The phyto helps by adding a food source, which increases nutrients. It also helps your system speed up the process of balancing the eco system and outcompeting the Dino’s.
Dino’s are resilient in zero nutrients, but very easily die off or diminish when there is anything else, and I mean ANYTHING else that outcompetes the Dino’s.
****One caution, the “refresh” is no joke and will almost eradicate the problem on it’s own, and the waste away is to clean up the wreckage left behind by the refresh. When the lights come on, you will see the shriveled remains of the god awful dinos (very satisfying to see them die)
But... the refresh can be hard on your inverts in your CUC. I lost a few snails and crabs during that process, but my shrimps were fine.
However, compared to the livestock and coral I had lost to Dino poisoning or smothering/being choked out by the Dino’s, a few dead snails and crabs was an okay price to pay to solve this.
I started to rant there for a moment, but hopefully it helps. And I Hope it works out for you!
80 gallon Dinoflagellate Treatment Bundle
Are you ready to beat dinoflagellates? Arm yourself with the right tools to win, and say goodbye to the dinoflagellate scourge! Dr. Tim's treatment regimen, using the bacterial strains within Re-Fresh and Waste Away, forms an important part of the solution to dinoflagellates by creating less...
-T
The more I read the more I feel it’s because I moved to quickly with adding coral when I did not have enough biodiversity in the tank. So essentially what you’re saying is by adding phyto/pods, I’m increasing the biodiversity which should help combat Dinos?
If it were me, I would find something less expensive and that I’m less attached to then coral to outcompete. In theory, yes coral can outcompete. In practice, you may just be sacrificing your coral to the dinoflagellate gods!
Start with letting your glass get filthy to outcompete and to also give your pods a nice snack!
+1 for biodiversity. You need the good bacteria and high micro fauna populations to outnumber the dinos. That is the principal behind dr Tim’s program. It’s nothing but darkness and bacteria!
I figured as much haha. I like the idea of adding pods anyway. Also good to know about Dr. Time and the skimmer/airstone. I’ll be sure to pick up a small one if I go that routeIf it were me, I would find something less expensive and that I’m less attached to then coral to outcompete. In theory, yes coral can outcompete. In practice, you may just be sacrificing your coral to the dinoflagellate gods!
**You need a skimmer for Dr Tim’s, or at least something to add oxygen to your tank during the treatment. Dr Tim’s uses specific bacteria that will consume the dinos and then be removed by your skimmer. Alternatively, you can run an air stone to protect your fishes oxygen in the event of a bacteria bloom, and then run a filter sock with really low micron (5-50) to pull the dead dinos/bacteria out. Just remember to clean and replace it daily.
