Acropora made the NYTimes today

[User1]

Gee I hope that wasn't directed at me. I believe in educating people to have less children.

Less children, huh? Why not just start a war...

How about just teach people to be responsible and that conservation starts at home. So parents, school, boy and girl scouts, etc.

 

[VSVP bet]

Unfortunately it is political and there is money involved. Both to pockets and to taxes. We see this in California every day. People cannot, or do not, remove their personal brassiness and we are not ready to have adult conversations about it. That is just the fact and this thread is a prime example. People say denier when they have a different opinion or view. Easier to call a name than talk rationally. Even then usually you won't convince the other which gets back to personal bias.

Here is California for you. We continue to raise alarms about our water supply and future droughts yet we continue, year over year, let trillions (yes folks, that is trillion with a T) of rainfall flow into the ocean. Even though our snow pack this year is 161% as measured earlier this week we will see politicians and others spread the word to ration water, prepare for droughts, climate change impact, etc. Pretty ironic yeah? But here is where it gets better because us older folks (just using a term someone used earlier) know the history of water and California. We know we had to build reservoirs to collect the rain water back in the day. We planned or had at the time X population. Well, X population grew to Y and Z over the years and we produced more and more crops but failed to build more reservoirs to collect the water to meet the growing needs. Not only did we not build anymore we elected to not increase any of the existing damns (Shasta comes to mind being the last one denied). Math is fun, right? Population grows, grow more food, weather is cyclical, good years, bad years, everything grows but our storage does not. Not only that no projects to ferry more of the wasted runoff to Southern California or say to even Nevada where they need it in Vegas...

So many fronts on this topic. Populations grow. Third world countries need to eat. Eating takes priority over regulations. Not all countries have the same regulations. Tourism equals dollars and that will trump your reefs. Clean energy is great but take Solar the panels are not efficient. Electric cars are nice but you need to replace / dispose of the batteries and charge the car. Electricity to your home is still coming from coal, hydro, or other means. Nuclear power is the cleanest power on earth but people don't want it and the regulations are killing it. There are the fuel rods but that is still manageable but no one agrees so let us just ignore that. List goes on and on.

Here is my take and the TL;DR version. Everyone should try and do their part. We should recycle what we can. Watch our house for wasted energy sources. Use water responsibly. If home owner or small business can afford it, install solar (continue those tax breaks to owner, not company leasing). Companies that can should encourage the use of remote workers to reduce traffic. If we as a hobbyist and general population try to do these basic things than that alone will help our dear Mother Earth.

That is how I see it.

Love this response.

 

[Art2249]

Less children, huh? Why not just start a war...

How about just teach people to be responsible and that conservation starts at home. So parents, school, boy and girl scouts, etc.

What does awareness about the population growth have to do with starting a war? How do you connect those dots?

 

[VSVP bet]

Try telling people 100% solar powered here.

I quote: A typical dumper truck consumes between 50,000 and 100,000 liters of diesel per year, depending on its application, and it can emit between ~131 and 262 tonnes of CO2.

Is mining for any other resource different however? Resource extraction has its draw backs, but even if mining continued BAU, if the resources were diverted to cleaner means of energy generation (wind, solar, nuke, NG, biomass), the end result would still be decreased emissions opposed to something like coal.

 

[User1]

What does awareness about the population growth have to do with starting a war? How do you connect those dots?

You are pinning the issue on population otherwise why educate to stop having children. Last country I recall doing that was China. Thus the war comment - wars reduce the population if that is your thing.

Educating people on how to conserve be it simple things like water, electricity, and recycling will go a lot further.

 

[Art2249]

You are pinning the issue on population otherwise why educate to stop having children. Last country I recall doing that was China. Thus the war comment - wars reduce the population if that is your thing.

Educating people on how to conserve be it simple things like water, electricity, and recycling will go a lot further.

My point is this. Educating people to conserve while not addressing the growth in population will have, at best, a net sum effect of zero. We will only be treading water, at best. think about what happened to Easter Island. People have said, when the last tree on easter island was cut down, what went through that person's mind. my answer is probably not much. Except that i need this tree.

 

[hatfielj]

Does the article claim that slight temp shifts are a problem for the reefs?

Would you define 90+ degree water for several weeks at a time a "slight temp change?"

Listen, people can choose to ignore what's happening if they want, but you at least need to know the facts before you choose to ignore them. Corals are dying off in many parts of the world at an alarming rate. It appears to be due to exposure to extreme temperatures. As hobbyists who spend their time enjoying these creatures in our homes, I would think you'd at least be interested in knowing about these problems.

 

[User1]

My point is this. Educating people to conserve while not addressing the growth in population will have, at best, a net sum effect of zero. We will only be treading water, at best. think about what happened to Easter Island. People have said, when the last tree on easter island was cut down, what went through that person's mind. my answer is probably not much. Except that i need this tree.

Well, the good news is that at least I understood what you meant. The bad news is that we don't agree. I mean I do agree about population just not the population control bit. Having said that I would just say we just agree to disagree and there is no harm in that. I'd still offer lunch and talk about other things.

Edit: I had B. S. there and it put crap - go figure /rollseyes

 

[hatfielj]

There is more carbon emissions associated with production of Tesla and its batteries specifically that a gas burning car would emit less in its lifetime.

But hey, some people buy into the whole save environment with our own money idea. I don't judge, I use my money at the pump.

Complete BS. There is no truth to anything you just said. If you don't like electric cars, fine, but don't spread lies. Sounds nice though for entertainment purposes which is why for profit news organizations spread it.

 

[User1]

Would you define 90+ degree water for several weeks at a time a "slight temp change?"

Listen, people can choose to ignore what's happening if they want, but you at least need to know the facts before you choose to ignore them. Corals are dying off in many parts of the world at an alarming rate. It appears to be due to exposure to extreme temperatures. As hobbyists who spend their time enjoying these creatures in our homes, I would think you'd at least be interested in knowing about these problems.

If hobbyists are as concerned as you make it then they would be giving away corals to one another rather than charging or throwing away. Or better yet making up fancy names on corals and selling them at ridiculously high prices. You can't have it both ways.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Is mining for any other resource different however? Resource extraction has its draw backs, but even if mining continued BAU, if the resources were diverted to cleaner means of energy generation (wind, solar, nuke, NG, biomass), the end result would still be decreased emissions opposed to something like coal.

This was related to Lithium mining

 

[User1]

Complete crap. There is no truth to anything you just said. If you don't like electric cars, fine, but don't spread lies. Sounds nice though for entertainment purposes which is why for profit news organizations spread it.

How is the power generated to power the car?
Where do the batteries go when they need to be replaced?
How much of your tax dollars are subsidizing the manufacture?
Where are the batteries being made and where is that waste going?

If the population suddenly rush to electrical vehicles what sort of stress is that going to put on our current electrical grid? How is that energy going to be created? Again - you can't have it both ways. Someone, somewhere, has to pay. If you think otherwise I'd ask you to take a step back and look at what regulations most countries put on things like this (battery, solar panel, manufacturing plants) and where it is now being made and then said places smog troubles. All you are doing is reshuffling the chairs on the titanic and not solving the problem while feeling good in your new electrical car...

 

[evolved]