Acropora made the NYTimes today

ScottR · Apr 4, 2019

hatfielj said:
They summarize a recent study released in Nature by the ARC Center of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies in Australia. It's one of the first studies to show that important ecosystem processes are being disrupted by climate change, even on scale as big as the great barrier reef. Unfortunately, they showed that acropora were hit the hardest of all coral species studied. It's scary news, but they are still optimistic that there is a chance to change things and save these ecosystems from total collapse if we act soon.

NYtimes Article

Climate change is not made up. I hate that it’s a political issue. I’m not into politics but I wish that people would wake up.

WVNed · Apr 4, 2019

Something I can agree with

I wish people would wake up.

jda · Apr 4, 2019

FWIW - I read the article and the summary of the study. I did not purchase the study.

I like the finger pointing from one culture to the next, but every one of us has a tank which is purely extra. I purchased solar panels to offset 100+% of the electric from my tank and hot tub since I cannot even argue that these are necessary for anything - house too. Has anybody pointing fingers at "the other side" even done this much to help? I still do not know how to offset shipping and all of the other environmental costs of this hobby. Maybe one day I will get to send frags back to the ocean.

Sod Buster · Apr 4, 2019

Nurse Ned said:
I am not interested in environmental opinions from people that ship their trash all the way to China.

They also truck it to Waterloo NY, upstate. The dump is now the highest point in Seneca county. We have some pretty large drumlins around, but their trash pile has outgrown nature. It smells like most beautiful urinal cake when you drive past, they have to mist air freshener into the air. 100's of tractor trailers a day! That is a cloud of diesel smoke.

Kal93 · Apr 4, 2019

These debates over climate change are ridiculous; it is occurring, and the question should be around the environmental impact.

First, reading a summary from the NYT is only receiving partial information. Ideally, we would all read the actual study before drawing our own conclusions (really, studies should be open access). The original paper compared the numbers of adult corals capable of spawning and "recruitments" (coral larvae/young coral) at 47 reef locations in the barrier reef from 1996-2016 v. after bleaching events in 2016-2017. Not surprisingly, there was less coral cover. Acropora, which spawns by releasing sperm and eggs rather than releases larvae, exhibited fewer recruits after the bleaching events, but ‘brooders' that release coral larvae, such as pocilloporids, which exhibited almost identical number of recruits.

So, this could mean that spawning processes have been disrupted (fewer spawning events), the bleaching events impacted the fertility/virility of the offspring (offspring are weaker), or that many spawning adults died off (which is possible, given how finicky acropora is), thus producing fewer offspring. I'm new to this hobby, so thoughts on *why* acropora were most affected would be appreciated.

Since bleaching events are projected to be an annual/semi-annual occurrence in the future, this study is useful in that scientists and locals rebuilding reefs may want to populate it with resilient species, such as larvae-bearing pocillopora, rather than acropora, in addition to conditioning aquacultured coral to tolerate temperature swings/higher temperatures and experimenting with genetic manipulation.

Fourstars · Apr 4, 2019

jda said:
FWIW - I read the article and the summary of the study. I did not purchase the study.

I like the finger pointing from one culture to the next, but every one of us has a tank which is purely extra. I purchased solar panels to offset 100+% of the electric from my tank and hot tub since I cannot even argue that these are necessary for anything - house too. Has anybody pointing fingers at "the other side" even done this much to help? I still do not know how to offset shipping and all of the other environmental costs of this hobby. Maybe one day I will get to send frags back to the ocean.

Good for you! But one guy offsetting his hot tub is not going to help the issue. What we need is a worldwide political movement and an educated populace. I do agree we need to look at our tanks as seed banks.

Anirban · Apr 4, 2019

jda said:
FWIW - I read the article and the summary of the study. I did not purchase the study.

I like the finger pointing from one culture to the next, but every one of us has a tank which is purely extra. I purchased solar panels to offset 100+% of the electric from my tank and hot tub since I cannot even argue that these are necessary for anything - house too. Has anybody pointing fingers at "the other side" even done this much to help? I still do not know how to offset shipping and all of the other environmental costs of this hobby. Maybe one day I will get to send frags back to the ocean.

In case you need the full article here it is..

KrisReef · Apr 4, 2019

casper320 said:
Never let a good crisis go to waste, we all know that slight temperature shifts don't affect corals. If it did all of our tanks would crash.

Anyone else notice that the "muh all scientists agree" usually spread bad information? Like they call zooxanthellae an algae, but we all know they are dinoflagellates, GBR is dying but the Red Sea is growing. An appeal to popularity is still a fallacy, show me the data.

The data are clear. The GBR is kind of a big thing geographically, so one end of it is subjected to very warm water and that edge is a big piece of reef habitat. All of these proffered studies focus on this same area where it routinely exhibits bleaching and the pictures of "dead" white coral make great pictures demonstrating the devastation. Every year we here that 50, or 60, or 90% of the coral is dying on the GBR, the pictures are posted and the data is inside the journals. I wonder how many repeated years of a reported 25% death rate could the GBR sustain if that low number were true?

The thing that is not reported is that a lot of that "dead" bleached coral recovers when the water temperatures drop, but I suppose that temperature drop occurs only because we stopped opening so many soda pop cans and the reduction in CO2 reversed the global temperature?

I don't think so. This bleaching edge of the GBR is an ecosystem that is thriving, but exists on the fringe of acceptable habitat for the shallow water Acroporas. A few degrees to the south the coral doesn't bleach so often, if at all.

The other thing that is missing is a fair answer to the question "why does coral bleach?"

Hypothesis: Acropora's accelerated growth occurs when ambient water temperature increase. This rapid growth cannot be sustained in nutrient poor waters, especially where access to dissolved carbon is limited.

Question: Does rapid Acropora growth increase uptake of carbonate and bicarbonate from the surrounding environment? (IE is the system self limiting?)

Suggested Alternative Synthesis: Bleaching (and occasional coral death) occurs as rapid Acropora growth becomes unsustainable due to the unavailability of carbonate and bicarbonate ions on the reef. Stressed corals may recover if carbonate and bicarbonate levels rise to support coral skeletal growth.

Have any reefers ever seen issues with their captive coral due to carbonate and bicarbonate (alkalinity) issues?

So I'm not a "Denier," but I'm not an "Assigner" either.
Please tax your own children if you must.

hatfielj · Apr 4, 2019

Wow, I wasn't expecting this kind of response.

I'm not going to start a big argument here, but for the several people that keep using the phrase "slight temperature shifts" I think you have your facts wrong and maybe you don't realize what's actually happening on these reefs. Be careful that you're not mixing up average temperature with temperature spikes in various parts of the reef. An average of 85 degrees means there are values much higher and much lower than that. It's the extreme high temps that are doing the damage and it's the extremes that are getting more extreme. The oceans does not stay one steady temp all the time. Some places are being hit with temps far outside what corals can tolerate.

The Great Barrier Reef is not having slight temperature shifts. The corals there, especially in the last couple of years, are frequently exposed to spiking temperatures higher than even the highest normal ranges for weeks at a time. We're talking several degrees C above the highest recorded historical values. Several degrees celcius is 5-6 deg F higher than the hottest recorded temps. In terms of Reef tanks, we might consider 84-87 the hottest we would allow our tanks to go under extreme conditions, try raising it 5-6 degrees hotter than that and keep it there for several weeks. That's what happened in many parts of the world over the last couple of years!

That is what is causing these bleaching events. It's not everywhere and it's not every day, that's why the average temperatures don't seem as extreme, but the extreme fluctuations are what's dangerous. These are extreme temperatures that corals generally can not withstand for very much time. If it's just a few days, not much damage is seen. But, the bleaching events that occurred in 2016 and 2017 happened after there were many weeks of sustained high temperatures in many locations. If you actually go diving there during the hottest months, you can find areas where the water is as warm as bath water. They comment on this while diving on that Chasing Corals documentary on Netflix.

I challenge anyone here with a reef tank to raise your temperature to 90-95 degrees F and see how your corals look after a few weeks

alton · Apr 4, 2019

https://www.economist.com/science-a...oral-barrier-reef-keeps-dying-and-coming-back

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-06/great-barrier-reef-showing-signs-of-recovery

The article posted is based on 2016 information. Until a country controls its population, is it serious about controlling global warming.

Fourstars · Apr 4, 2019

I agree our children and their children have already been taxed enough. All the answers to this problem can be fixed with technology and the free market.

Rjukan · Apr 4, 2019

Nurse Ned said:
New York City is one of the largest cancerous blights on the face of the earth. Then there is the sewage and trash it produces.

I am not interested in environmental opinions from people that ship their trash all the way to China.

It's unfortunate you would post something so offensive to a group of people without any provocation. FYI NYC pays upwards of 2.3 billion a year to dispose of that garbage, and it's not being forced on any other state... Not to mention we recycle more than the average city.

It's obvious you couldn't care less what someone from one of the "largest cancerous blights" thinks of you but you've really shown your true colors to me.

WVNed · Apr 4, 2019

The great barrier reef and New York City have something in common.

They can both be seen from space.

I am tired of being lectured by people about the environment that live in places where it has been completely eradicated.

I posted a pic above.

Do you see ANYTHING that was there before people in that pic.
just like a river in California.

We call that a drainage ditch.

I live here

I am tired of being told "Be Careful or you will break it" by you people.

I am being careful and I do care but you go off half cocked about everything.

Biodegradable products, which slowly decay into inoffensive chemicals instead of clogging up landfills until the end of time, seem like they shouldn’t have a downside. But one of those chemicals is apparently not so inoffensive: methane gas. If a landfill has high-tech methane-capture technology, then that’s free fuel. But if they don’t (and most don’t), that methane is going straight into the atmosphere. And methane is actually a far worse greenhouse gas than much-derided carbon dioxide.

OOps.

but LOL let's go backweards.

There’s hope, though. The study, from North Carolina State University, suggests that we simply design bioplastics that take longer to degrade

You want everything sterile and wrapped in plastic and clean and covered in concrete.
I buy something made of plastic and it comes in a plastic bag in a box wrapped in plastic.

The Earth is made from dirt and rocks. Sorry it isn't clean.

I think I will go outside and walk around in my bare feet.

Hemmdog · Apr 4, 2019

You guys would love California. I get yelled at about being ignorant to climate change everyday driving to the grocery.. driving to work.. LFS..it’s so fun.. so sorry I can’t afford a $120k Tesla. I love being publicly stoned for using gas. Get China, India, Malaysia onboard with going green, that’s how you see change. Not my car.