Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[bobssecrtsn]

I think this is my next course of action. As bad as I hate to remove the sand, I think im going to do it. I'm thinking about putting it in a plastic tub with saltwater/pump/heater and no light for a month while I dose beneficial bacteria to it. Then put my coral qt light over it and see if the dino's return. If I can go a month with no dino's and the light on, then I'll move it back to the display.

just make sure you feed a pinch of food!

 

[cedwards04]

just make sure you feed a pinch of food!

I've got an emerald crab that I caught eating an sps coral. Its been in my sump. I may toss it into that tub and feed it every few days to maintain bacteria.

 

[Mark]

Bummer to hear that temp increases hasn't worked for some of you all. Maybe it's species specific, or tank condition specific. The feedback and experimentation is helpful. My Dino’s were very slimy and stringy, and covered everything including rocks, corals, glass. Not the kind that stays on the sand.

 

[megdog75]

Hello everyone,
First off I just wanted to say what an incredible place this forum is! There is so much knowledge and experience which I really hope to tap into.

I have a 58 gallon tank which has been set up for a few years now. I still consider my self very much a beginner. I have had brown mess covering mainly my sand for about two months. I'm pretty convinced it is some kind of dinoflagellates. It totally disappears at night and quickly reappears about an after the light ramping up in the morning. I have lost quite a few snails and my conch which I'm really gutted about.

My sps seem fairly stable with the exception of my plating Montipora which is really struggling and often has a slight build up of the brown mess on it. I do try to gently turkey baste it off regularly.

I now have GAC in the sump to try and help with and toxins. I have tried cleaning the top layer of sand with a syphon and a 5 micron sock which I don't think really helped.

My tank parameters are as follows

Alk 8.2 (stable on a dosing pump)
Calcium 450
Mag 1450
PO4 0.15 (dosing neophos)
NO3 10. (dosing neonitro)
Salinity 1.025

I use a Hanna testers for alk and phosphate. I use the Nyos for nitrate and Red Sea Pro for the rest.

PO4 and NO3 have been stable at these levels for about three weeks. I had detectable but pretty low levels before that. I don't remember ever testing zero of either.

I have just purchased a cheap microscope which I have just been having a play with.

I was hoping someone might be able to help with an ID and possibly a suggestion of what to do next.

The pictures are really poor, sorry. I don't have the most stable of hands. I also got a video but I'm yet to work out how to upload it.

Many thanks

(if this is in the wrong place I do apologise, I'm still figuring out the whole forum thing. Woow I sound and feel old!)

 

[JCTReefer]

Pulled my sanbed last night. Washed clean with tap water. Washed for about 30 minutes until completely clear. It was pretty clean prior to rinsing. I had already been vacuuming a lot through a sock for my amphidinium. Microscope showed few in sample, but still the lingering brown dusting. After the rinse, I boiled two gallons of water and dumped ontop of the rinsed sand. Mixed up and let soak for an hour. Temp went from 200 degrees to 130 over the course of an hour. After that I rinsed in Ro/Di and put back in tank. Only 1/2 inch or so. It’s likely not going to do any good, but thought I’d give it shot. Nitrates are at 5ppm and phosphates at .080ppm. Sorry for the blue pic. It was late when putting the sand back in.

 

[megdog75]

Pulled my sanbed last night. Washed clean with tap water. Washed for about 30 minutes until completely clear. It was pretty clean prior to rinsing. I had already been vacuuming a lot through a sock for my amphidinium. Microscope showed few in sample, but still the lingering brown dusting. After the rinse, I boiled two gallons of water and dumped ontop of the rinse sand. Mixed up and let soak for an hour. Temp went from 200 degrees to 130 over the course of an hour. After that I rinsed in Ro/Di and put back in tank. Only 1/2 inch or so. It’s likely not going to do any good, but thought I’d give it shot. Nitrates are at 5ppm and phosphates at .080ppm. Sorry for the blue pic. It was late when putting the sand back in.

What a beautiful tank!!

 

[megdog75]

Still trying to upload the video.

 

[megdog75]

 

[megdog75]

 

[hotashes]

Pulled my sanbed last night. Washed clean with tap water. Washed for about 30 minutes until completely clear. It was pretty clean prior to rinsing. I had already been vacuuming a lot through a sock for my amphidinium. Microscope showed few in sample, but still the lingering brown dusting. After the rinse, I boiled two gallons of water and dumped ontop of the rinsed sand. Mixed up and let soak for an hour. Temp went from 200 degrees to 130 over the course of an hour. After that I rinsed in Ro/Di and put back in tank. Only 1/2 inch or so. It’s likely not going to do any good, but thought I’d give it shot. Nitrates are at 5ppm and phosphates at .080ppm. Sorry for the blue pic. It was late when putting the sand back in.

Yes nice looking tank. Do let us know how your newly rinsed sand goes please.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

Looks like you have prorocentrum.

 

[JCTReefer]

Yes nice looking tank. Do let us know how your newly rinsed sand goes please.

Thank you!
I will definitely update!! I’ll give it a couple of weeks and see. I’m not super hopeful. I’m thinking these things can survive a nuclear meltdown. Been dealing with these things for about a year. Didn’t even realize it until I went back and looked at old pictures. My nutrients had been bottomed out for a long time. Only the last few months have I tried to correct/address my nutrients levels. Been dosing seachem flourish phosphorus and sodium nitrate. I’ve found my nitrates to pretty stable, but have to dose for phosphates 3 times a week or so. Tried the black out thing before I learned they do nothing for Amphidinium. Tank would look good for a few days after a black out, only to have them return. Fresh water is suppose to lyse dinos I believe. Could be wrong. I’m not sure what cyst can survive. I’ve heard everything from, “they can go dormant in a dry setting” , only to become active once in water again. I’ve read so many threads on this stuff, it’s overwhelming. My sand bed wasn’t serving any real purpose other than aesthetics so figured I didn’t have much to lose. Hopefully I didn’t disturb the balance in the system anymore than it already was. People swear that all you have to do is, maintain nutrient levels, increase biodiversity, “out compete”, etc, etc.... Siphoning through filter socks, blowing off rocks, UV sterilization for some species, adding bacterial supplements, peroxide, bleach, cutting photo period, the list goes on.
I never had these issues back in the day. When i say back in the day, I mean early 2000’s. Back then live rock was all I used. This is the first system I’ve ever started with dry rock. I think this is a huge part of the problem these days with all the dino issues out there. Lack of biodiversity. Now there were certainly dinos back then, but you didn’t hear about many people having issues like you do today. I’m in the process of upgrading to a 210, and definitely don’t want to deal with this in a much larger system. I honestly believe that dinos are present in every system. Not sure they can be avoided, but can be kept at bay with the right conditions being met. System balance and biodiversity I suppose.

 

[taricha]

I was hoping someone might be able to help with an ID and possibly a suggestion of what to do next.

these are large-cell amphidinium. you are in the right thread

 

[megdog75]

these are large-cell amphidinium. you are in the right thread

Thank you very much for the id. I am going to reading through from the start again and then try to formulate a plan.

Thanks again.

 

[megdog75]

I forgot to mention I have been running a 20w D-D UV. It is plumbed in to my sump and does not seem to have had much of an impact on the dreaded brown stuff. Would you recommend removing it? I didn't want to kill off beneficial beasties that might help in the battle. Also I purchased two 5 micron sock. I have tried to syphon the worst of it through a sock and return the water. I don't know if it is just a coincidence but it seemed to make it a little worse. I did leave one of the 5 micron socks on the return over night as I thought it might help if it was the type that entered the water coloum at night. I don't know if it was using the syphon or leaving the sock in which made it worse or maybe neither?

What is the general concensus on filter the worst of it through a filter sock and returning the water?

Many thanks

 

[megdog75]

I really hope we can all beat this one day. It is certainly sucking the enjoyment out of the hobby. I feel like this is definitely the place that can do it!

Thanks

 

[Cooper 2020]

I really hope we can all beat this one day. It is certainly sucking the enjoyment out of the hobby. I feel like this is definitely the place that can do it!

Thanks

I hope so too, often advancements in this hobby are made by the hobbyists themselves. We can only try, test and experiment.;Bookworm

 

[cedwards04]

Pulled my sanbed last night. Washed clean with tap water. Washed for about 30 minutes until completely clear. It was pretty clean prior to rinsing. I had already been vacuuming a lot through a sock for my amphidinium. Microscope showed few in sample, but still the lingering brown dusting. After the rinse, I boiled two gallons of water and dumped ontop of the rinsed sand. Mixed up and let soak for an hour. Temp went from 200 degrees to 130 over the course of an hour. After that I rinsed in Ro/Di and put back in tank. Only 1/2 inch or so. It’s likely not going to do any good, but thought I’d give it shot. Nitrates are at 5ppm and phosphates at .080ppm. Sorry for the blue pic. It was late when putting the sand back in.

Definitely report back with your findings. I suspect during the process of pulling the sandbed, some of the dino's will have ended up in the water column and will find their way back to you clean sand, but maybe not. Time will tell for sure.

 

[JCTReefer]

Well, I’ll m reporting back. The clean white sand lasted a day. I noticed some brown strands on the sand bed a minute ago and decided to check it out. Took a sample and actually think it’s worse than before I pulled the sand. These are much larger than my previous video earlier in the thread. And they are slower. Their barrel roll movements are slower also. Am I still dealing with Amphidinium? Large cell? I tried comparing them on algaeid.com’s videos. And also to the pictures/descriptions that Taricha provided of the BIG 3. Here’s a pic and a video.

 

[CDavmd]

Well, I’ll m reporting back. The clean white sand lasted a day. I noticed some brown strands on the sand bed a minute ago and decided to check it out. Took a sample and actually think it’s worse than before I pulled the sand. These are much larger than my previous video earlier in the thread. And they are slower. Their barrel roll movements are slower also. Am I still dealing with Amphidinium? Large cell? I tried comparing them on algaeid.com’s videos. And also to the pictures/descriptions that Taricha provided of the BIG 3. Here’s a pic and a video.

That's Ostreopsis....if you are not running UV, do so...they go into the water column and UV is effective. Also run carbon as they are one of there toxic species.