Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[DrMMI]

I am cautiously encouraged.
I've had the lights on for 4 days now and no crazy re-emergence of dinos.
Granted, it's only been 4 days of light but usually 4 days of light is enough to begin to see dinos re-populate.
Sand is still white(ish). Rocks are looking good. No dinos so far on pumps or plumbing. Glass is clear. Sump and display smell way better.

I will continue the Dr Tim's regiment and keep an eye on things but this is looking better for now.

I have 2 days to go on the waste away treatment.
I still plan on doing the entire treatment again just as a knock em out the box measure but I probably will wait about a week or so before starting again. That should give me time to really observe the tank for dinos.

What dose of Dr. Tim's are you using? I only used 1/4 dose as the instructions said and it didn't help.

 

[Dj City]

I used full dose of refresh and half dose of Waste away.
I also hit the tank with a 3 day blackout while using properly sized UV before starting.
Go back to read what all I did .

 

[RMS18]

Big Update:

Since my last post here I stopped doing anything outside of good tank maintenance and keeping stability with the big 3. It's been much easier keeping the big 3 stable without bacteria dosing, blackouts, h202, increasing temp, dosing po4 and no3, skimmer on and off due to bacteria dosing etc. I stopped silica dosing and brought po4 and no3 down to normal levels of .05po4 and 5-8no3 for an sps tank.

I see no more brown anywhere on the sand or power heads / wires. Instead it has been replaced with a beautiful thick red carpet of cyano all over. Even parts on the rocks has cyano. I no longer have that dino smell on my filter pads.

I'm not sure why cyano has broken out when I've never seen it before but like dinos I'm not adding any chemicals or doing anything outside of keep good water chemistry and letting it run its course.

From the silica dosing I had a huge sponge explosion, has to be 500+ sponges in my sump. Since the dosing stopped they are dying off and the cyano may be due to this. Hence why I'm not going to do anything drastic.

Sps are coloring up and starting to grow since the alk swings stopped. Snails and my red starfish are more active.

I get a green film on my glass after 2-3 days, rather than a brown film.

What I'm experiencing currently, I've never experienced before while trying to treat for dinos. A this point different is good imo. It's been 10 months fighting them in this tank.

It took weeks for dinos to take over because of something I did, however you don't see it happening until it's to late. For me it was using nopox and dumping no3 and po4. If I would have just let the system rebound, I think I could have beat them a long time ago. Instead since the start of this I have been dosing or trying something new every week, never allowing the system to just balance out. Im sure there are plenty of wars going on the micro level in that tank right now, and I'm gonna do my part to keep what I can stable and let it balance out.

I'll check back in another couple of weeks.

 

[ScottB]

Big Update:

Since my last post here I stopped doing anything outside of good tank maintenance and keeping stability with the big 3. It's been much easier keeping the big 3 stable without bacteria dosing, blackouts, h202, increasing temp, dosing po4 and no3, skimmer on and off due to bacteria dosing etc. I stopped silica dosing and brought po4 and no3 down to normal levels of .05po4 and 5-8no3 for an sps tank.

I see no more brown anywhere on the sand or power heads / wires. Instead it has been replaced with a beautiful thick red carpet of cyano all over. Even parts on the rocks has cyano. I no longer have that dino smell on my filter pads.

I'm not sure why cyano has broken out when I've never seen it before but like dinos I'm not adding any chemicals or doing anything outside of keep good water chemistry and letting it run its course.

From the silica dosing I had a huge sponge explosion, has to be 500+ sponges in my sump. Since the dosing stopped they are dying off and the cyano may be due to this. Hence why I'm not going to do anything drastic.

Sps are coloring up and starting to grow since the alk swings stopped. Snails and my red starfish are more active.

I get a green film on my glass after 2-3 days, rather than a brown film.

What I'm experiencing currently, I've never experienced before while trying to treat for dinos. A this point different is good imo. It's been 10 months fighting them in this tank.

It took weeks for dinos to take over because of something I did, however you don't see it happening until it's to late. For me it was using nopox and dumping no3 and po4. If I would have just let the system rebound, I think I could have beat them a long time ago. Instead since the start of this I have been dosing or trying something new every week, never allowing the system to just balance out. Im sure there are plenty of wars going on the micro level in that tank right now, and I'm gonna do my part to keep what I can stable and let it balance out.

I'll check back in another couple of weeks.

Good update. With amphids, I tend to agree with your new philosophy. Unlike ostreopsis, interventions just seem to drag things out.

 

[NewReefer455]

Figured I would add to this thread what worked for me to fight off amphidinium dinos. Luckily for me it wasn't all that bad or difficult to get rid of them. It is a relatively new tank (almost 3 months old), and I had them bad on all the sand and rock surfaces. I confirmed amphidinium under a microscope comparing to confirmed cases in this thread and others, and I got to work. Nitrates and Phosphates were reading a clear zero as well. What I did is as follows.

Day 1
-I removed all my rocks into separate buckets of tank water and vacuumed the sandbed as thoroughly as I could running the water back into the sump into a 1 micron sock
-Cleaned each individual rock with a toothbrush in freshly mixed water in a 5g bucket and then returned the rocks to the display
-Cleaned all glass minus the rear panel
-Started running 100 micron socks and changed them out every 12 hours
-Pulled all the whites out of my leds and only focused on blues, also cut the intensity down to 60% and lost 2 of my 10 hour photoperiod
-Started overfeeding pellets, I would take some between my fingers and crush them into a powder underwater to get them to break down more quickly (attempting to raise nitrates/phosphates)
-Pulled the cup on my skimmer and set it to max

Day 2
-Nitrates and phoshates still reading zeros
-Added macros and pods to the fuge and kicked the intensity all the way up on grow (kessil h80)
-Added an 8oz bottle of coralline algae to the display and sump
-Began dosing microbacter7 (tablespoon into the display and sump 2x a day

Day 3
-Nitrates in the 1ppm range and phosphates still undetectable
-Regrowth is starting to be apparent on some parts of the sandbed, but nothing on the rocks or glass
-Some of the brown sludge on the backwall is starting to show small patches of green pop up between it

Intermission
For the next week it was more of the same, the dinos grew in intensity in the sand but never touched the rockwork again. I got my nitrates into the 20ppm range and began controlling them again with the skimmer on low. I finally got them hovering in the 5-10ppm range and phosphates also balanced just below .1ppm. Eventually I began to see small patches of red and green cyano eating through the dinos, diatoms were also present in the sand, but not as intensely. Bryopsis patches formed in the sand as well and I hand removed them as needed. Meanwhile the algea in the sump was flourishing, except for the ulva which for some reason slowly disintegrated. After about a week from the beginning I turned the whites back on in the display and began running my regular light cycle again. I also purchased another powerhead and ran it close to the sand to help with the cyano. I am now a little over 2 weeks since I identified it as dinos and the sandbed is completely clean minus a 1x2" patch of diatoms that are slowly withering away.

I am continuing to overfeed and dose trace amount of microbater7 every few days, but as of this morning, there are no dinos anywhere to be seen in the tank. All in all, I only lost a single juvenile fireshrimp, but the cause is unknown. I did however start finding small aptasia pop up on one of the rocks, so that my next venture I suppose. I am starting to think that adding biodiversity and getting parameters stable is all I needed to really fight it off, the sand/rock cleaning probably helped to speed it up, but it probably wasn't necessary.

 

[agol77]

Have you taken spot samples to confirm your observations? I too saw a decrease in their outward appearance that I thought correlated well with some actions I was taking, only to learn that their population density had not changed.

Additionally, I'm really optimistic for your success, but I can't help but be reminded of all the posts on RC where people claimed changing their light bulbs helped cure their fish's ich (hint, it didn't). Richard Ross actually talks about this exact phenomenon if you want to watch his Macna video.

They came back! There was a period of about ten days where I could barely see them, but then they slowly started to come back, showing up on the rocks and any detritus that settled on the bare bottom.

On a plus point, for some reason the bulb change has really perked up all of my soft corals. I had two patches of Xenia that were really short and never grew, but since the bulb change they’ve exploded, along with mushrooms and Zoas. There’s no proof that it’s the bulb, and could just be the tank maturing, but I’m hoping everything will spread to cover all rocks and reduce Dino real estate.

 

[Chewbacca]

In regards to the siphoning through a 10 micron sock.... I was talking to a girl who had these and is a zoologist. She said she used a spare canister filter packed with diatomaceous earth.... Anyone else? Kinda like a dino vacuum. Lol.

I use a 5 stage sun sun canister filter dressed with course, medium and fine poly and diatomaceous With the pick up / suction line in my over flow box before the sump and the return line into the socks of the sump. Then I siphon into the overflow or into the sun sun/ diatom filter done right will bring the diatom filter to one micron which will also help with other water column pest with hardly and water chem loss. This is opinion and way of keeping things at bay or eliminating I run the filter for one week. Also keep in mind I do not use skimmers,scrubbers etc... only 2- 100 micron socks and poly fiber before return pump. No water changes. Just top off and dose for trace once a week with testing My tank 150 gallon, 30 gallon sump, 80 lbs sand and 240 lbs rock. Mixed reef and fish. I have been using diatom filtering for over 30 years and has yet to let me down.

 

[Dj City]

Happy Father's Day...
This is going to be a long and detailed post but please help me if you can.

I have 180gal display with a Dinos problem.
I have used my UV to help and it has helped but to set it up properly is real ugly. The UV was temporarily installed.
I also used Dr. Tim's dinos regiment and I believe that helped as well.
I think I'm still dealing with dinos but it's much slower than it was before.
I will do the Dr. Tim's regiment again later this week or next week.

The UV really seemed to help too so I would like to have it employed after the Dr. Tim's regiment.

What I would like to do is figure out a way to permanently install the UV sterilizer.
This is a challenge because I want it closed loop in the display. I can't have a giant pump in my display! I don't want PVC pipes visible in the display. I don't want a powerful suction that fish can get caught in and I don't want a powerful water stream in the tank that will upset the sand.

Anyone have any ideas?

This is how the UV was set up...
It's not pretty but it's effective.

Pentair aquatics smart 40UV
Jeabo DCP15000 pump
1019gph through UV verified with Apex flow meter.

There are two major tips to installing your UV Sterilizer correctly so that it can perform the function you got it for.

Today Ryan identifies how to properly install the UV Sterilizer correctly to make sure it does it's job!


I am open to ideas and suggestions.
Please help.

 

[Cwentz758]

So an update to my Amp battle. Been dosing silicate for about 2 weeks. I’m up to 45 drops a day with a .25 ish ppm range on the Salifert kit. I’m for sure seeing diatoms starting to take over in some parts of my sand bed. I’m not cleaning my glass anymore and hopefully it’ll speed things up. I’ve also been feeding phytoplankton from algae barn along with some other beneficial bacteria from them. I’ve also been dosing nitrates as mine were bottomed out. Finally after a bottle of Neo Nitro and a week of dosing “Seed” I’m starting to read 5ppm nitrate. I’m going to continue to raise them to about 10ppm. My phosphates have been steady around .47 which I’m leaving alone until I get other things in check.

fish are happy and corals seem to be doing good.


you can see the front of the tank is the light brown dusting now vs the side pic where it’s dark brown where I believe the Dino’s still are.

 

[Cooper 2020]

When dosing silicates how do we stay on top of Po4 ? I’ve taken my aluminium based po4 remover offline as this removes silicates , Po4 at 0.166 (54 ppb) at what Po4 level should I be concerned ?

 

[JCTReefer]

Happy Father's Day...
This is going to be a long and detailed post but please help me if you can.

I have 180gal display with a Dinos problem.
I have used my UV to help and it has helped but to set it up properly is real ugly. The UV was temporarily installed.
I also used Dr. Tim's dinos regiment and I believe that helped as well.
I think I'm still dealing with dinos but it's much slower than it was before.
I will do the Dr. Tim's regiment again later this week or next week.

The UV really seemed to help too so I would like to have it employed after the Dr. Tim's regiment.

What I would like to do is figure out a way to permanently install the UV sterilizer.
This is a challenge because I want it closed loop in the display. I can't have a giant pump in my display! I don't want PVC pipes visible in the display. I don't want a powerful suction that fish can get caught in and I don't want a powerful water stream in the tank that will upset the sand.

Anyone have any ideas?

This is how the UV was set up...
It's not pretty but it's effective.

Pentair aquatics smart 40UV
Jeabo DCP15000 pump
1019gph through UV verified with Apex flow meter.

There are two major tips to installing your UV Sterilizer correctly so that it can perform the function you got it for.

Today Ryan identifies how to properly install the UV Sterilizer correctly to make sure it does it's job!


I am open to ideas and suggestions.
Please help.

This is probably not the answer you’re looking for, but the cleanest way to install directly in the tank is to drill it. I’m in the same boat as you. Have a new tank on the way and am trying to figure out the best/cleanest way to plumb it directly in the Display. I’d rather go the sump route but know that’s not very effective when dealing with dinos. I suppose if you had tons of turnover through sump it could possibly work. I’m like you though, I hate having pumps hanging in the display, but that’s probably what I’ll wind up doing. Using a small pump to feed the UV.

 

[Cwentz758]

When dosing silicates how do we stay on top of Po4 ? I’ve taken my aluminium based po4 remover offline as this removes silicates , Po4 at 0.166 (54 ppb) at what Po4 level should I be concerned ?

.166 is not high at all in my opinion. I know everyone says .03 is ideal but if your tank is thriving I wouldn’t chase numbers. I will eventually restart my reactor running GFO and carbon to keep my p04 lower than where I’m at now which is .47

I chased numbers and bottomed out nitrates, now here I am with dinos

 

[CDavmd]

When dosing silicates how do we stay on top of Po4 ? I’ve taken my aluminium based po4 remover offline as this removes silicates , Po4 at 0.166 (54 ppb) at what Po4 level should I be concerned ?

Don't worry about phosphate at this point. I normally run mine at 0.1 (if you are down in the 0.03 range you might be at zero due to the error in measurement, best to stay around 0.1 in my opinion). During my Dino treatment I let it go and it got as high as 0.3-0.4- no harm to the corals other than some browning of SPS and that will go away when I get it back down to 0.1

 

[Cooper 2020]

Don't worry about phosphate at this point. I normally run mine at 0.1 (if you are down in the 0.03 range you might be at zero due to the error in measurement, best to stay around 0.1 in my opinion). During my Dino treatment I let it go and it got as high as 0.3-0.4- no harm to the corals other than some browning of SPS and that will go away when I get it back down to 0.1

Okay thanks just worried about it getting too high .

 

[DrMMI]

Happy Father's Day...
This is going to be a long and detailed post but please help me if you can.

I have 180gal display with a Dinos problem.
I have used my UV to help and it has helped but to set it up properly is real ugly. The UV was temporarily installed.
I also used Dr. Tim's dinos regiment and I believe that helped as well.
I think I'm still dealing with dinos but it's much slower than it was before.
I will do the Dr. Tim's regiment again later this week or next week.

The UV really seemed to help too so I would like to have it employed after the Dr. Tim's regiment.

What I would like to do is figure out a way to permanently install the UV sterilizer.
This is a challenge because I want it closed loop in the display. I can't have a giant pump in my display! I don't want PVC pipes visible in the display. I don't want a powerful suction that fish can get caught in and I don't want a powerful water stream in the tank that will upset the sand.

Anyone have any ideas?

This is how the UV was set up...
It's not pretty but it's effective.

Pentair aquatics smart 40UV
Jeabo DCP15000 pump
1019gph through UV verified with Apex flow meter.

There are two major tips to installing your UV Sterilizer correctly so that it can perform the function you got it for.

Today Ryan identifies how to properly install the UV Sterilizer correctly to make sure it does it's job!


I am open to ideas and suggestions.
Please help.

I hid my pump behind the rocks in the corner so it doesn't show at all. I also plumbed it with black PVC. I'm still working on trying to slow down the output. I'm probably going to use a y-adapter and some loc line to help disperse the flow.

 

[Rwade]

12 days of dosing Spongexcel, started low and have increased to 20ml per day in my 180 DT, still nothing on the Salifert kit other than cloudy water. Diatoms are increasing but Dinos are about the same. I’ll be switching over to Water Glass tomorrow since I’m out of Spongexcel.

 

[taricha]

Personally, I would not be comfortable dosing a more concentrated version of silica, if I don't have a test kit that picks it up. (I use hanna)
At some point silica will stop being the limiting nutrient for diatom growth, and then you really may have no idea what the Si concentration is in your system.

 

[Miller535]

Personally, I would not be comfortable dosing a more concentrated version of silica, if I don't have a test kit that picks it up. (I use hanna)
At some point silica will stop being the limiting nutrient for diatom growth, and then you really may have no idea what the Si concentration is in your system.

Do you use the HI705?

I have noticed on my last few Triton test's that my silica is steadily declining (I do have a TON of sponges in my overflow though). I want to start dosing it, but I do not have a test kit for it.

 

[andrewey]

Quick update with my experience:

I'll keep up my weekly monitoring, but it's now been ~three weeks without any amphidinium (or any dinos) in any of the samples I'm scoping. Two weeks ago I restarted water changes and three days ago I performed a 50% water change to see if the influx of trace elements would spur dino growth. So far my treatment regimen has been effective for my particular ecosystem.

 

[taricha]

Do you use the HI705?

I have noticed on my last few Triton test's that my silica is steadily declining (I do have a TON of sponges in my overflow though).

Yep! The Low Range Si, Hi705.
Si is consumed by many organisms if it's present and other nutrients are not limiting.