Another conversation about how to chemically reduce nitrates.

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Here

Geez! Now why you gotta do that to me!? LOL THAT'S AWESOME!!

 

[Pete polyp]

Geez! Now why you gotta do that to me!? LOL THAT'S AWESOME!!

You're telling me! Google images though.... If it were mine I would frag you a head

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I'd reduce my nitrates for that one...

 

[Pete polyp]

I would give my pinky toe for that one

 

[Pete polyp]

I know we don't know eachother or anything that could resemble that.... But I have kept an eye out for your blasto

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I know we don't know eachother or anything that could resemble that.... But I have kept an eye out for your blasto

Thanks, bro! I really appreciate that! I really would love to pick up some nice ones. That picture by WWC ruined me...LOL I'm definitely on the hunt, and I appreciate you helping me.

 

[Pete polyp]

Thanks, bro! I really appreciate that! I really would love to pick up some nice ones. That picture by WWC ruined me...LOL I'm definitely on the hunt, and I appreciate you helping me.

No problem at all. When I hit the lfs I search for them. Thought I found you one because it was "blue lightning blah blah blasto" but it wad really a 2 head frag of solid red wellsi on a porites. That store is crazy lol

 

[mcarroll]

I've stated this before.....regardless of the bacterial food source (biopellets, vodka, vinegar, etc) phosphates and nitrates will be "consumed" in a ratio of 1 to 16, respectively. This is biology....can't get away from it.....it is the way it is.....phosphates and nitrates are needed for life to happen. Please look up Redfield ratio to better understand what is going on with the "consumption" of the nitrates and phosphates.

Wikipedia - Redfield ratio

This doesn't make what's specifically going on in the average carbon-dosed tank any more clear, but it is interesting. The Redfield Ratio is more of an average....more true the smaller the scale. I.e. Very true on a DNA level, true but with tons of potential variance on the macro level. There's no way of saying for sure how much (if any) PO4 is going to come out with the Nitrate as far as I can tell.

Do you have anything that makes what's happening in the aquarium more clear?

[...]The way pellets work effectively is that bacteria colonize the pellets and begin to consume this food. As they multiply (and in the process utilize phosphate and nitrates), they eventually begin to sluff off the pellets. They exit the reactor and are immedialely picked up by the skimmer to be exported out of the system.[...]

That sounds like wishful thinking. Skimmers are (so far as they've been studied) at best around 30% efficient....I'm not sure it's even that good when talking specifically about bacteria.

I can't remember who brought it up, but everything beyond live rock (and water changes) is a band aid.

-Matt

 

[Pete polyp]

Wikipedia - Redfield ratio

This doesn't make what's specifically going on in the average carbon-dosed tank any more clear, but it is interesting. The Redfield Ratio is more of an average....more true the smaller the scale. I.e. Very true on a DNA level, true but with tons of potential variance on the macro level. There's no way of saying for sure how much (if any) PO4 is going to come out with the Nitrate as far as I can tell.

Do you have anything that makes what's happening in the aquarium more clear?



That sounds like wishful thinking. Skimmers are (so far as they've been studied) at best around 30% efficient....I'm not sure it's even that good when talking specifically about bacteria.

I can't remember who brought it up, but everything beyond live rock (and water changes) is a band aid.

-Matt

What about deep sand beds? That's a band aid?

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Where does the bandaid metaphor come from? To my way of thinking that would mean you're covering something up or temporarily fixing something. (???) Carbon dosing is a nutrient export method that occurs by promoting the growth of beneficial bacteria that will convert nitrates into nitrogen (right?). So nothing is being covered up since the nutrients aren't masked...they're exported! It's also not a temporary fix since vodka dosing is not something that should be done short-term but rather would become a means of export that is part of regular husbandry (for those who choose to use it). Again, it's all about import and export...getting the garbage out that was put in.

What about deep sand beds? That's a band aid?

Pete makes a great point here with his question. Live rock is simply a surface area for the growth of beneficial bacteria. This same thing is accomplished through a deep sand bed...or any other number of methods. In the end the beneficial bacteria is the "natural method" not the rock it lives on. Arguably, carbon dosing is another "natural means" since it promotes the growth of bb.

 

[Arnie]

This is a great thread... now i will not sell my eheim 2213 and will use it as a reactor instead and get biopellets and will have vodka dosing added later.... finally got an aqueon proflex sump model #2.. i will run a fuge... finally out of canister filters.
Now my question is where do i put the chemipure elite in the sump???

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

This is a great thread... now i will not sell my eheim 2213 and will use it as a reactor instead and get biopellets and will have vodka dosing added later.... finally got an aqueon proflex sump model #2.. i will run a fuge... finally out of canister filters.
Now my question is where do i put the chemipure elite in the sump???

Definitely in the sump.

 

[Arnie]

In which part of the sump? Last stage with the skimmer? Or first stage?

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

In which part of the sump? Last stage with the skimmer? Or first stage?

Tough question...I honestly think you've got a lot going on in there already if you're really looking at all of these methods to be used together (for instance, I personally would probably not recommend vodka dosing AND biopellets since they essentially do the same thing). As far as the chemi-pure goes, if you decide to use it, just be sure it's in a high flow area where it will get a lot of contact with the water. Do you have a build thread going on here?

 

[Arnie]

As soon as i start my sump in 2 weeks i will post it and hopefully you can see the set up and would appreciate some feedbacks.....

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

As soon as i start my sump in 2 weeks i will post it and hopefully you can see the set up and would appreciate some feedbacks.....

That would be great! Definitely let me know when you get it started! I'm sure you'll get lots of great feedback from this community. We're glad you're here!

 

[Arnie]

Thanks ...... i am glad im here.....

 

[Pete polyp]

Where does the bandaid metaphor come from? To my way of thinking that would mean you're covering something up or temporarily fixing something. (???) Carbon dosing is a nutrient export method that occurs by promoting the growth of beneficial bacteria that will convert nitrates into nitrogen (right?). So nothing is being covered up since the nutrients aren't masked...they're exported! It's also not a temporary fix since vodka dosing is not something that should be done short-term but rather would become a means of export that is part of regular husbandry (for those who choose to use it). Again, it's all about import and export...getting the garbage out that was put in.



Pete makes a great point here with his question. Live rock is simply a surface area for the growth of beneficial bacteria. This same thing is accomplished through a deep sand bed...or any other number of methods. In the end the beneficial bacteria is the "natural method" not the rock it lives on. Arguably, carbon dosing is another "natural means" since it promotes the growth of bb.

I could not agree with this entire post any more than what was said.

Carbon dosing is another form of nutrient export whether it be vodka, vinegar or biopellet. Its not a band aid! It will be my primary export of.nitrate in my bare bottom setup because that's what I choose. I could have very well have chosen a natural method with the sump being the same size of my display. I choose to overstock with fish to feed my sps. I also plan on "overfeeding" with the foods that are available ( coral frenzy, reef roofs, oyster feast, etc.)
I would not be able to have the livestock I already have inside my 40 gallon tank much less feed the way I want to without carbon dosing.

 

[Reefing Madness]

Tough question...I honestly think you've got a lot going on in there already if you're really looking at all of these methods to be used together (for instance, I personally would probably not recommend vodka dosing AND biopellets since they essentially do the same thing). As far as the chemi-pure goes, if you decide to use it, just be sure it's in a high flow area where it will get a lot of contact with the water. Do you have a build thread going on here?

I agree, don't Vodka Dose while using Pellets, you could however use vodka to ween off of pellets, but don't use them all out at the same time. And when dosing into the sump, it doesn't matter where you put it.

 

[Reefing Madness]

I could not agree with this entire post any more than what was said.

Carbon dosing is another form of nutrient export whether it be vodka, vinegar or biopellet. Its not a band aid! It will be my primary export of.nitrate in my bare bottom.setup because that's what I choose. I could have very well have chosen a natural method with the sump being the same size of my display. I choose to overstock with fish to feed my sps. I also plan on "overfeeding" with the foods that are available ( coral frenzy, reef roofs, oyster feast, etc.)
I would not be able to have the livestock I already have inside my 40 gallon tank much less feed the way I want to without carbon dosing.

Sure you could, if you ran an industrial skimmer, you wouldn't need to carbon dose.:xd: