Another "Is This ICH?" thread

[LanM]

Hello guys,

In this tank I have 3 fish (Orchid dottyback, Davinci Clown, Lightning maroon clown)
2 nems, and 27 other frags.

I noticed this on my fish this morning. manifested overnight apparently as I did not see any spots yesterday. I have been using blue light only (trying to keep an algae problem at bay).

Turned the whites on for these pictures.
Davinci is most visible. Smaller spots on the Orchid. Poor lighning maroons eyes look foggy and large, but perhaps that's only my perception.

I was leaving for Florida today....guess not now.
I'm reading the ICH thread now.

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

Might be Brook, #reefsquad any thoughts?

 

[EmdeReef]

That looks a bit like too many spots for ich. The second pic looks like brook but also a bacterial infection given the shape of the fins.

 

[LanM]

The Davinci is new to the tank, about 3 weeks ago. The origin of the tattered appearance of the fins is due to him and the lightning maroon settling in.

 

[EmdeReef]

Does the skin look like it's peeling? Maybe google some pics of brook and see if it looks like it. It's very common with clowns and at least in that 2nd pic looks like a "mucousy" layer on skin. Any other symptoms?

 

[LanM]

Skin doesn't look like its peeling, looks like the bottom of a pizza crust that's had too much flour. the Davinci has a few larger spots on the other side. Lightning maroon has a few tiny little spots, but his eyes look enlarged to me.

Dottyback has a handful of tiny dots.

I have a 10 gallon QT I'm setting up. Just set up a 25 gallon cube finally last night at 1am, but it has new live sand (27lbs of seasoned live rock), but I'm assuming that a 10 gallon would be much more manageable for meds so I'm going to toss the rock and sand back in the rubbermaid for now.

 

[LanM]

Could it be brooklynella if the dottyback has it?

I'm assuming I should do a freshwater dip now before running out to find/buy whatever I need to treat, as well as an extra HOB filter, heater, ammonia badge.

 

[saltyhog]

Spots look to be too big for ich. Brook or less likely velvet. If it's confined to the fins, lymphocytosis is another possibility.

 

[LanM]

Definitely on the body as well. Larger patches on the body

 

[Big G]

Here's a link on Brook by Humblefish. Notice the pictures of "Early" and "Late" to compare on your fish. Yes, any fish can contract Brooklynella
Big fan of Ruby Reef Rally (acriflavine) to treat Brook.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/#post-2913287

 

[LanM]

I'll read up immediately

 

[LanM]

Only thing I can get my hands on locally is ich-X which has formalin.
swing and miss on the rest so far.

A reef creation in cheektowaga has 1 bottle left from old stock.
Good enough start?

Now off to grab that, a HOB, heater, blah blah. I should be 500 miles south right now on my way to florida.....can't just abandon these little guys.

 

[Big G]

Only thing I can get my hands on locally is ich-X which has formalin.

That will work. Just wear gloves, protect eyes and a mask would not be a bad idea. Formalin is a known carcinogen. But it works really well.

 

[LanM]

Thanks for the tip, and many thanks to everyone for the help so far!
I'm running out to grab that stuff now.

 

[LanM]

Update:
I did a freshwater dip before leaving the house, and they looked better almost immediately.

I went to A Reef Creation in Buffalo/Cheektowaga NY to pick up the ich-X

After showing the guys at the store my pics and video I took of the fish before leaving, I was told that it was ICH, and not Brook. Normally I see everyone say that you should take what the LFS says with a grain of salt, but everyone on here that's mentioned these guys seems to feel they know what theyre doing.

The owner (shaved head fella, can't remember his name) even pulled out a book, and showed me the differences in what I should look for, etc. Same as on here. So I was abliged to follow his direction after he watched the video clips of the fish.

I picked up some cupramine, and will be going that route. I also ordered a formaldehyde med on amazon if the reef gods don't agree with this opinion

 

[HotRocks]

If fresh water dip made them look better you could very likely be dealing with velvet. Copper is a must if it is indeed velvet. You would also want to maintain a therapudic level within 24-48 hours. @4FordFamily @Big G

 

[4FordFamily]

Truthfully that looks like brook or velvet to me. I lean brook.

 

[xRob]

I'm no expert but I'm fairly sure that a FW dip has little/no visible impact on ich (and arguably none at all). So if the dip did provide immediate relief then it's far more likely you're dealing with brook or velvet.

 

[LanM]

Update: Last night I got the hospital 10 gallon set up, and the fish moved in. Dosed Seachem Cupramine, at the level specified on the bottle. (put 8 gallons in the tank, used 16 drops). I fed them, not expecting much, but I wanted to reduce stress if possible.

This morning at 7am, they all looked better. 12:30pm when I returned, all three looked fine, they weren't getting worse as far as I could tell.
20 min ago, checked on them and the Davinci was dead laying next to the heater (100W neotherm laid flat on the center floor of the tank). I'm at a loss for what happened? Did he stay too close to the heater and cooked himself? I'm including a picture, he looks much better to the eye, no visible white spots at all.

I'm worried about the other 2. If they go, I'm hanging it up for a while.

What should I do to help/save the other 2?

View attachment Davinci 2 dead.jpg

 

[Big G]

Cupramine is copper and copper is a poison pure and simple. Best practices are to slowly ramp up the copper level if possible. For example 2 drops in the AM and 2 drops in the PM each day until you reach the therapeutic level unless the fish are suffering from Marine Velvet and that requires ramping the dose up within 48 hours. You would dose for emergency treatment of velvet several times a day AM, lunch, PM to spread out the dose so it's not so hard on the fish. But even slowly dosing, sometimes you will lose a fish.

So you have dosed 2 drops per gallon for 8 gallons so far for a total of 16 drops. You could leave it be for the 48 hours and then continue to increase the dosage slowly a few drops in the AM and PM until reaching therapeutic level. As you get near the therapeutic level, start testing to make sure not to over dose.

I know it says to treat the fish for 14 days. But it's better to treat for 30 days to eradicate Ich/Velvet. The 14 day thing is a bit iffy and only works if you are exactly on with the dosage and then you move the fish to a fresh QT tank to observe for 14-30 days to make sure the disease is gone.