Another "Is This ICH?" thread

LanM · Mar 10, 2018

Thanks for the reply Big G. I likely shoukd have stayed with the intended formaldehyde treatment, no? I can order acriflavine.

Do you rec staying the course with the copper?

Im a bit sidelined by the chain of events going from visually symptomatic to being treated within hours, to dead 28hrs later.

Is it your opinion that the copper may be the cause, and not the disease?

Big G · Mar 10, 2018

Remember the 30 day (or 14 if you choose) clock starts once you have reached therapeutic level, which for cupramine is 0.5

LanM · Mar 10, 2018

Will do, thanks. Had to order a test kit online as they had none in stock.

Big G · Mar 10, 2018

LanM said:
Thanks for the reply Big G. I likely shoukd have stayed with the intended formaldehyde treatment, no? I can order acriflavine.

Do you rec staying the course with the copper?

Im a bit sidelined by the chain of events going from visually symptomatic to being treated within hours, to dead 28hrs later.

Is it your opinion that the copper may be the cause, and not the disease?

Could be a bit of both that caused the loss of the one clown. Weakened condition from disease.
You've already started the copper. I'd finish the treatment if you see continuing improvement. When done with the copper, I'd dose the fish with API General Cure. It contains Metro and praziquantel which treat a variety of other conditions: flukes, internal parasites/worms, Brook, black ich, etc. And then the fish would be good to go.

Big G · Mar 10, 2018

Regardless of what you choose to do, at the end of the copper treatment, you have to remove the copper before treating with other meds. Lots of water changes and running carbon in your filter. Get an API Copper Test kit to confirm the copper is gone.

LanM · Mar 10, 2018

Thanks for the help.

I ordered a seachem copper test kit yesterday.

I set up a 10 gallon QT for them. At the end of the copper treatment, I planned on breaking it down, cleaning, filling with clean water, and putting them back in.

Big G · Mar 10, 2018

Washing the tank and equipment with bleach, rinse, rinse, dry will remove the bio-film and med residue; washing the tank and equipment with vinegar, rinse, rinse, dry will precipitate the copper into a harmless form.

LanM · Mar 12, 2018

Quick question, a bit aside from the sickness.

I was instructed to replace the Lost DaVinci clown last time tragedy struck as fast as possible. Now that the new one made in less than a month and succumb to this disease I again am down to one clown.

Do I wait until these fish or better to reintroduce another clown to the lightning or do I go get another one now and toss it in the hospital tank with them? The poor lightning looks so lost, more so because of the bubble tip than the other DaVinci because the other DaVinci bullied him pretty hard. I see the little guy rubbing up against the heater treating it like he would the anemone.

Big G · Mar 12, 2018

LanM said:
Quick question, a bit aside from the sickness.

I was instructed to replace the Lost DaVinci clown last time tragedy struck as fast as possible. Now that the new one made in less than a month and succumb to this disease I again am down to one clown.

Do I wait until these fish or better to reintroduce another clown to the lightning or do I go get another one now and toss it in the hospital tank with them? The poor lightning looks so lost, more so because of the bubble tip than the other DaVinci because the other DaVinci bullied him pretty hard. I see the little guy rubbing up against the heater treating it like he would the anemone.

Nothing good happens fast in this hobby. Had a similar thing happen with a pair of clowns a few months back. Didn’t want to take a chance with infection in a new one. So I put a couple of fake coral plants and more pvc pieces in the tank. And paid more attention with frequent small feedings.

LanM · Mar 12, 2018

thanks for the reply. Another reason why I had considered this and ask the question was that I had rip that some people preemptively treat all their fish while in quarantine tank for ich. I was just spitballing around that it's perhaps I'd wanted to add fish which I do that now might be the best time to do that if it was both best for the other clown as long as a good strategy to ensure that one day transferred back that none of my fish have any issues with whatever might be treated by copper.

Big G · Mar 12, 2018

Yes, I do and highly recommend prophylactically treating all new incoming fish, corals and inverts for diseases. I work very hard at keeping my display tank free from harmful disease.
I treat fish with Copper for 30 days for Ich/velvet. Remove copper from water column and then treat with API General Cure. GC contains Metro and praziquantel which treats for flukes, internal parasites/worms, Brooklynella, Black Ich, Uronema. Takes about 6-7 weeks.

LanM · Mar 22, 2018

Update: I've had them in a hospital tank for 12 days. I've slowly increased the copper (still at only 4), I know full treatment dosage is 5. However, today my Orchid Dottyback looks like this?

Big G · Mar 22, 2018

Looks like your Dottyback has developed a bacterial infection which happens sometimes while treating fish with copper. You could try pulling the fish out and giving it a bath in Ruby Reef Rally. It has both antibiotic and antiseptic qualities. Could do this every other day to see if it helps.
The other choice is to dose the QT with antibiotics Kanaplex or Furna2. The problem is that it's very hard on the fish to be both in copper and antibiotics. Here's a thead by Humblefish on this problem: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-bacterial-infection-predicament.310311/#post-3816129

LanM · Mar 22, 2018

Thanks for the info Big G.

The timing for these issues couldn't be worse. Last time, to the day I was leaving the state and stayed to take care of the issue. Again, I'm supposed to be leaving tomorrow. I can't put it off, and either have to leave their care in the hands of a friend, or bring them with.

Do you think it would be too stressful to bring them--1200 mile drive--(small tank, with inverter for heater), and set up the tank down there so I can tend to them myself?

Stress of the trip vs a likely lack of the same degree of care. I can ask someone to add medication to the tank, and keep it topped off but anything more is likely beyond the scope of assistance I'll get.

Big G · Mar 22, 2018

Stress on fish, especially those undergoing copper and or meds is not a good idea. They need a quiet, calm place with just ambient light, so they can relax and get better.
I'd give the Dottyback the Ruby Reef Rally bath today. And then start dosing the QT with a broad spectrum antibiotic: Kanaplex, Furan2, etc. for 10-14 days. Add some O2 to the tank: an air stone, tilt a powerhead so it is breaking/rippling the water surface. Turn off the lights on the tank if you can and just have ambient light from window, etc. in the room.

LanM · Mar 22, 2018

Big G said:
Stress on fish, especially those undergoing copper and or meds is not a good idea. They need a quiet, calm place with just ambient light, so they can relax and get better.
I'd give the Dottyback the Ruby Reef Rally bath today. And then start dosing the QT with a broad spectrum antibiotic: Kanaplex, Furan2, etc. for 10-14 days. Add some O2 to the tank: an air stone, tilt a powerhead so it is breaking/rippling the water surface. Turn off the lights on the tank if you can and just have ambient light from window, etc. in the room.

Thanks. I'm doing some of that currently (I've been ambient light only, and powerhead tilt for a couple hours a day).

I'm looking for ruby reef rally right now.