Another "Is This ICH?" thread

[LanM]

Thanks,
It looks like a paraguard bath then into a fresh tank would be the best course of action right? I have the ol' trusty 8 gallon nano I could prepare fresh, match the copper % of the current tank and transfer them into.

 

[Big G]

Paraguard "For 1 hour dips, use 3 mL per 4 L (1 US gallon) in a container separate from your main tank. Dips may be extended if the fish show no evidence of stress."

 

[LanM]

Thanks, after reading that on their site, as well as Humblefish's recs, I plan on doing the 5 minute freshwater dip, followed by the paraguard bath. Then transfer into a new tank, and increase the copper to therapeutic levels.

Hopefully

 

[LanM]

Looks like I have a bit of a dilemma. I picked up Paraguard, but I've now read (saw a seachem moderator post) that using paraguard and cupramine together is almost "certainly lethal".....pause for profanity....and now its 10:30pm and I have no idea if that was referenced to using both in the tank, or in general (ie: paraguard baths are ok separate from treating with cupramine, just don't put both in the tank).

Any late night ideas? I have a 12 hr day tomorrow, and really don't want to come home to dead fish.

 

[LanM]

Since Paraguard is also effective against all ecto's and bacteria, would simply discontinuing the copper treatment be the best course of action at the moment?

I'm assuming from a triage perspective that treating the likely rapidly spreading bacterial infection is the most important, and if the medication that treats that also treats the prior issue I can only see that as at least as good as what I've been doing thus far?

 

[Big G]

Well, heck. I just read the same info. Don't think you have enough time to remove the Cupramine from the water running charcoal and water changes. Man. Tough spot. Sorry.

 

[LanM]

I have the 8 gallon cleaned up right now. If I just pull them, do a freshwater dip, and transfer them into the 8 gallon and treat that virgin water with paraguard (basically can the copper approach), would that be about the best I could do at the moment?

I genuinely appreciate the late night replies. Thank you very much for all your help.

 

[Big G]

How many days have the fish been in the cupramine at therapeutic level?

 

[LanM]

8 days at 4+. I titrated up slowly (probably too slowly). Full theraputic might not have reached even though I was measuring by direction, when my test kit came in I hadn't quite reached 5 yet.

 

[LanM]

I got the other hospital tank up and going, pulled them, did a freshwater dip, and transfered them into the virgin water tank treated with puraguard.

The orchid dottyback did pretty much what my old davinci did the second it hit fresh water--buckled over and gasped. I pulled him in 60 seconds, transfered him to the puraguard bin I set up as a intermediate acclimation for a minute or two, but I could see that he was taxed. I put him in the new tank, as well as the lightning maroon, and 2nd clown.

Dottyback is all but a goner... He's pretty motionless, leaned against the pvc elbow, with his respiration slowing over the past 40 min.

 

[Big G]

Bacterial infections are very difficult to beat.

 

[LanM]

Certainly looks that way. It's frustrating, the past 2 days they appeared to be doing great...all kinds of energy, coming out and greeting when someone entered the room, eating like pigs....then swat.

When I put the dottyback in the freshwater dip, he did appear to have a clear slime/gelatenous substance coming off of him in little trails.

On a positive note, the 2 clowns seem to have shrugged it off like nothing. To clarify, the lightning maroon has been around, the 2nd clown was a new addition last evening. LFS was likely going to flush him (quasimodo looking thing).

Thanks again for all the help.

I'll grab 4 hours of sleep, and see how the dottyback fared. I'm assuming when they're this far gone there's not much to be hopeful for.

 

[Big G]

Hate to say it but that sloughing off of the dottyback is a symptom of Brook.

 

[xPhilx]

Update: Last night I got the hospital 10 gallon set up, and the fish moved in. Dosed Seachem Cupramine, at the level specified on the bottle. (put 8 gallons in the tank, used 16 drops). I fed them, not expecting much, but I wanted to reduce stress if possible.

This morning at 7am, they all looked better. 12:30pm when I returned, all three looked fine, they weren't getting worse as far as I could tell.
20 min ago, checked on them and the Davinci was dead laying next to the heater (100W neotherm laid flat on the center floor of the tank). I'm at a loss for what happened? Did he stay too close to the heater and cooked himself? I'm including a picture, he looks much better to the eye, no visible white spots at all.

I'm worried about the other 2. If they go, I'm hanging it up for a while.

What should I do to help/save the other 2?

View attachment Davinci 2 dead.jpg

I’m so sorry. I’ve been following along to see what I could learn. Wishing the rest of the crew a speedy recovery.

 

[LanM]

Thanks fellas, I guess we'll see how it goes.
BigG, I thought so, and that's what we were originally tossing around. I was under the impression that the Cupramine was supposed to be effective on the Brook. 12 days total in the cupramine, but maybe the fact that I didn't stay static at the theraputic level is the reason...although I was seeing positive results and knew that overdosing was not good, and due to my travel schedule (and no ato on the hospital tank), I figured it would be safe to hover where I was (having seen postive results and no recurrance). That's what you get when you play doctor and decide that theraputic levels are an arbitrarty suggestion.

 

[LanM]

 

[LanM]

Update: Orchid dottyback didn't make it.

Both clowns: asymptomatic, happy, energetic, and best of all they're sticking together like glue. I hope things remain positive. I'm going to dose paraguard for the recommended period, and go from there.

 

[xPhilx]

Update: Orchid dottyback didn't make it.

Both clowns: asymptomatic, happy, energetic, and best of all they're sticking together like glue. I hope things remain positive. I'm going to dose paraguard for the recommended period, and go from there.

Sorry about your Dottyback, but I'm super happy your clowns are doing better. Keep us all posted.