Apex 2016 salinity disappointment AGAIN !!!!!

[vetteguy53081]

I got up this morning and a few new coral are bleaching. Checked salinity first and it said 34ppt. I added some sea water to bucket and Before I poured it in as this has happened onece, decided to check water again with New Hanna salinity checker and the refractometer and they show 41ppt - 1.030.5 dang IT APEX !!!!!!
I don't know why this probe is so unreliable for many and causing lots of loss of coral due to Unreliability !!!

PS - Still love Apex and their great support. just no excuse for this. Time to calibrate- 5th time now since owning unit

 

[n2585722]

Lucky you double checked it. I always doulbe check before taking any corrective action about any readings. Just recently I got two different calibration solutions for salinity. They were off by 3 from each other. I went and got some locally and it was 1 up from the lowest reading one. I went with it for calibrating the refractometer and the probes since it will work for both. Still not sure which is closest to being correct. Tank reads 35.0 with refractometer and 53.1 with pinpoint reader and 35.9 on my controller. All were calibrated 4 days ago with the same calibration solution. I have been thinking about the Hanna. How do you like it so far?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hanna was too easy. Dip it in hit button and instant reading which two other devices. I rinse in ro and blew it dry with computer canned air and put it away

 

[PerplexyHexy]

I got up this morning and a few new coral are bleaching. Checked salinity first and it said 34ppt. I added some sea water to bucket and Before I poured it in as this has happened onece, decided to check water again with New Hanna salinity checker and the refractometer and they show 41ppt - 1.030.5 dang IT APEX !!!!!!
I don't know why this probe is so unreliable for many and causing lots of loss of coral due to Unreliability !!!

PS - Still love Apex and their great support. just no excuse for this. Time to calibrate- 5th time now since owning unit

I just literally mentioned this happening to me, but its been 6-7 months since I calibrated last. I never go off that probe anyway... lol!!! I only use it for reference if my ATO is dumping a load of topoff water just in case I need to shut it off... The Hanna checker is AMAZING!!! Love that thing

 

[TheHarold]

Conductivity is too sensitive to be a reliably method for reading salinity long term, IMO. I only use the probe for trends; it consistently reads 3ppt lower than the rest

 

[MnFish1]

I got up this morning and a few new coral are bleaching. Checked salinity first and it said 34ppt. I added some sea water to bucket and Before I poured it in as this has happened onece, decided to check water again with New Hanna salinity checker and the refractometer and they show 41ppt - 1.030.5 dang IT APEX !!!!!!
I don't know why this probe is so unreliable for many and causing lots of loss of coral due to Unreliability !!!

PS - Still love Apex and their great support. just no excuse for this. Time to calibrate- 5th time now since owning unit

I turned my salinity probe - and ORP probe off - despite cleaning, etc - it SEEMS to be unreliable. When I mentioned this in another thread (i.e. that its recommended to replace these probes) - it seemed to be discounted. I now use a refractometer - and soon - hopefully - a Mindstream

 

[RMS18]

Great timing for this post!

I agree. I don't pay attention to my Apex Salinity probe anymore. My Milwaukee reads 35ppt and Apex can read from 33-34.5 while Milwaukee is at 35 each time. I took out the old refractometer and calibrated it, and the water tested right under 35ppt.

I have had this probe running since October of 2018 and calibrated it 3 times now with another calibration kit on its way. Check out the Apex screen shot from 8-26 to 9-2 this is normal behavior for the prob, it will randomly drop and slowly come back up.

 

[joekool]

I got up this morning and a few new coral are bleaching. Checked salinity first and it said 34ppt. I added some sea water to bucket and Before I poured it in as this has happened onece, decided to check water again with New Hanna salinity checker and the refractometer and they show 41ppt - 1.030.5 dang IT APEX !!!!!!
I don't know why this probe is so unreliable for many and causing lots of loss of coral due to Unreliability !!!

PS - Still love Apex and their great support. just no excuse for this. Time to calibrate- 5th time now since owning unit

Have you checked for electrical interference and or micro bubbles. Those are two of the main issues people are having with readings.

if you move the probe and bubbles float away and then the number changes you have micro bubble issues.

I keep my conductivity probe away from other probes and the temp probe is a couple spaces over on the holder.

Next check for power wires crossing the probe wire.

You should be fine from the first calibration and not have any issues with the probe if you are it’s some sort of interference causing wrong numbers.

Don’t forget to use temperature compensation and adjust it so that your spot on with another reliable reading of your salinity.


Also your coral issues is most likely related to something other then salinity like temp alk and other parameters. Salinity change like the numbers you stated 41 from 35 isn’t really that significant as it looks it’s only a few thousandths difference . Salt actually only makes up less than 20% of the water. I would not jump to change salinity levels. Plus they aren’t going to just change that quick unless you add salt or add to much water. Run down all your other parameters.

 

[joekool]

Have you checked for electrical interference and or micro bubbles. Those are two of the main issues people are having with readings.

if you move the probe and bubbles float away and then the number changes you have micro bubble issues.

I keep my conductivity probe away from other probes and the temp probe is a couple spaces over on the holder.

Next check for power wires crossing the probe wire.

You should be fine from the first calibration and not have any issues with the probe if you are it’s some sort of interference causing wrong numbers.

Don’t forget to use temperature compensation and adjust it so that your spot on with another reliable reading of your salinity.


Also your coral issues is most likely related to something other then salinity like temp alk and other parameters. Salinity change like the numbers you stated 41 from 35 isn’t really that significant as it looks it’s only 3and a half hundredths difference . Salt actually only makes up less than 20% of the water. I would not jump to change salinity levels. Plus they aren’t going to just change that quick unless you add salt or add to much water. Run down all your other parameters.

I will also state that I own multiple apex units and have no issues with accurate readings for years.

 

[MnFish1]

Have you checked for electrical interference and or micro bubbles. Those are two of the main issues people are having with readings.

if you move the probe and bubbles float away and then the number changes you have micro bubble issues.

I keep my conductivity probe away from other probes and the temp probe is a couple spaces over on the holder.

Next check for power wires crossing the probe wire.

You should be fine from the first calibration and not have any issues with the probe if you are it’s some sort of interference causing wrong numbers.

Don’t forget to use temperature compensation and adjust it so that your spot on with another reliable reading of your salinity.


Also your coral issues is most likely related to something other then salinity like temp alk and other parameters. Salinity change like the numbers you stated 41 from 35 isn’t really that significant as it looks it’s only 3and a half hundredths difference . Salt actually only makes up less than 20% of the water. I would not jump to change salinity levels. Plus they aren’t going to just change that quick unless you add salt or add to much water. Run down all your other parameters.

That 'should' happen - but - in practice - NO offense - I find it completely unreliable. BTW - the difference between 35 and 41 is quite significant - especially if one is trying to adjust salinity based on the '35' (or 33) - when its actually 41.

Using your logic you could say - well - 35-41 is only 4 100'ths (1.026 - 1.030) - so another 4 100th's would be 1.034, etc etc etc. The instrument doing the measurement shoudl be accurate right? I apologize - I don't get y our thinking here

 

[MnFish1]

I got up this morning and a few new coral are bleaching. Checked salinity first and it said 34ppt. I added some sea water to bucket and Before I poured it in as this has happened onece, decided to check water again with New Hanna salinity checker and the refractometer and they show 41ppt - 1.030.5 dang IT APEX !!!!!!
I don't know why this probe is so unreliable for many and causing lots of loss of coral due to Unreliability !!!

PS - Still love Apex and their great support. just no excuse for this. Time to calibrate- 5th time now since owning unit

BTW - unless you checked with a 3rd method (I assume you did) - you cant tell whether the Apex was correct - or the hanna)

 

[joekool]

Great timing for this post!

I agree. I don't pay attention to my Apex Salinity probe anymore. My Milwaukee reads 35ppt and Apex can read from 33-34.5 while Milwaukee is at 35 each time. I took out the old refractometer and calibrated it, and the water tested right under 35ppt.

I have had this probe running since October of 2018 and calibrated it 3 times now with another calibration kit on its way. Check out the Apex screen shot from 8-26 to 9-2 this is normal behavior for the prob, it will randomly drop and slowly come back up.

So you just stick your Milwaukee in the water and take a reading. Totally not the same as having a probe full time in the holder. There are many issues possibly related to your readings such as I stated before on this thread. I would be willing to help you get this right for you. You should haveonly needed to calibrate the probe once and if you have had to do it three times something else is going on. Just message me and I’ll help

 

[SuncrestReef]

I mounted my salinity probe submerged upside down so bubbles escape easily. It’s been very reliable since making that change.

 

[joekool]

That 'should' happen - but - in practice - NO offense - I find it completely unreliable. BTW - the difference between 35 and 41 is quite significant - especially if one is trying to adjust salinity based on the '35' (or 33) - when its actually 41.

Using your logic you could say - well - 35-41 is only 4 100'ths (1.026 - 1.030) - so another 4 100th's would be 1.034, etc etc etc. The instrument doing the measurement shoudl be accurate right? I apologize - I don't get y our thinking here

It’s actually not of significance not enough to cause the coral issues. Sorry had my math wrong but your return statement is wrong as well if it was 4 hundredths more than 1.026 it would be 1.066. You know .tenths, hundredths, thousandths so again sorry it would only be a difference of 4 thousandths which is nothing. Also just listened to multiple knowledgeable speakers at MACNA talk about it.

 

[joekool]

I mounted my salinity probe submerged upside down so bubbles escape easily. It’s been very reliable since making that change.

That’s great. These probes are actually pretty consistent if the variables are controlled. I think Neptune could include information describing these issues so people have more success with them.

 

[MnFish1]

So you just stick your Milwaukee in the water and take a reading. Totally not the same as having a probe full time in the holder. There are many issues possibly related to your readings such as I stated before on this thread. I would be willing to help you get this right for you. You should haveonly needed to calibrate the probe once and if you have had to do it three times something else is going on. Just message me and I’ll help

I have no dog in the fight except my own experience - which matches the reviews on amazon.com - that its an unreliable instrument. https://www.amazon.com/Neptune-Systems-Grade-Salinity-Conductivity/product-reviews/B00BEA68CO

 

[MnFish1]

It’s actually not of significance not enough to cause the coral issues. Sorry had my math wrong but your return statement is wrong as well if it was 4 hundredths more than 1.026 it would be 1.066. You know .tenths, hundredths, thousandths so again sorry it would only be a difference of 4 thousandths which is nothing. Also just listened to multiple knowledgeable speakers at MACNA talk about it.

You are incorrect in the most important sense IMO - there is a big difference between 1.025 and 1.030 when it comes to corals. - and yes you're correct - I just used your (incorrect initial) wording in my response. Actually, math-wise - I dont think you can describe specific gravity in 10th's 100'ths, etc - very adequately anyway - the difference between 1.000 and 1.025 for example is only '2.5 hundredths'. implying a small difference when in fact its the difference between pure water and saltwater.

 

[MnFish1]

Also just listened to multiple knowledgeable speakers at MACNA talk about it.

Not wanting to derail the thread - but - I'm curious what the multiple knowledgable speakers at MACNA talked about with regards to salinity. If what was said was something along the lines that corals tolerate a large range of salinity - I agree. BUT - I would suggest that corals - when exposed to 'non-normal salinities' show stress. (polyp retraction, etc etc). But either way I'm curious as to what you learned.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I checked it against 2 other meters which all say 1.030 also and I just got back from LFS and asked them to test and they come up with 1.029 so

BTW - unless you checked with a 3rd method (I assume you did) - you cant tell whether the Apex was correct - or the hanna)

Four other instruments say 1.029 to 1.030. Of coursed I checked against other instruments as indicated in OP.

 

[MnFish1]

I checked it against 2 other meters which all say 1.030 also and I just got back from LFS and asked them to test and they come up with 1.029 so

Four other instruments say 1.029 to 1.030. Of coursed I checked against other instruments as indicated in OP.

Thats why I said 'I assume you did'. I didnt see that you mentioned the refractometer. Sorry