Apex 2016 salinity disappointment AGAIN !!!!!

[vetteguy53081]

You are incorrect in the most important sense IMO - there is a big difference between 1.025 and 1.030 when it comes to corals. - and yes you're correct - I just used your (incorrect initial) wording in my response. Actually, math-wise - I dont think you can describe specific gravity in 10th's 100'ths, etc - very adequately anyway - the difference between 1.000 and 1.025 for example is only '2.5 hundredths'. implying a small difference when in fact its the difference between pure water and saltwater.

Oops- wrong person

 

[MnFish1]

tenths and hundredths come with digital readings and yes you can get those values. Been doing this 32 years and have a little clue about salinity and salinity values.
Owning a full line store for years and doing same for customers, measuring salinity is no science to me. I just trusted after a calibration accuracy of Neptune fusion reading and not blaming them but just a message to double check if in doubt- That was my point of posting.
Nothing is 100% whwn it comes to measurements.

I think you're replying to the wrong person. I wasnt doubting the fact that your Apex gave you the wrong value - I was doubting what the other poster implied - which was that 1.025 is not that big a difference compared to 1.030 - even though its only 1/1000 difference - its a huge difference to the tank. ie. 1.000 to .025 is only a 2.5/100th difference - but its the difference between pure water and saltwater. That is a lot different compared to a salinity value that is 35.1 vs 35.4. That was my point (I was supporting your OP).

 

[vetteguy53081]

I think you're replying to the wrong person. I wasnt doubting the fact that your Apex gave you the wrong value - I was doubting what the other poster implied - which was that 1.025 is not that big a difference compared to 1.030 - even though its only 1/1000 difference - its a huge difference to the tank. ie. 1.000 to .025 is only a 2.5/100th difference - but its the difference between pure water and saltwater. That is a lot different compared to a salinity value that is 35.1 vs 35.4. That was my point (I was supporting your OP).

LOL- yes wrong person

 

[vetteguy53081]

That’s great. These probes are actually pretty consistent if the variables are controlled. I think Neptune could include information describing these issues so people have more success with them.

Ive had this before and they told me to calibrate and sent video. Have calibrated 5X over the last 1.5 years.

 

[PerplexyHexy]

Ive had this before and they told me to calibrate and sent video. Have calibrated 5X over the last 1.5 years.

They are garbage... Like I said, only thing they are useful for is monitoring a drastic change from an issue with ato... other than that, you might be able to modify it to being a nice straw for a refreshing beverage...

 

[vetteguy53081]

They are garbage... Like I said, only thing they are useful for is monitoring a drastic change from an issue with ato... other than that, you might be able to modify it to being a nice straw for a refreshing beverage...

 

[joekool]

I think you're replying to the wrong person. I wasnt doubting the fact that your Apex gave you the wrong value - I was doubting what the other poster implied - which was that 1.025 is not that big a difference compared to 1.030 - even though its only 1/1000 difference - its a huge difference to the tank. ie. 1.000 to .025 is only a 2.5/100th difference - but its the difference between pure water and saltwater. That is a lot different compared to a salinity value that is 35.1 vs 35.4. That was my point (I was supporting your OP).

Ok great thanks for the support. But truly it’s not a big difference I’m just saying. Some parts of the ocean change much more than that daily. I’m not trying to say your wrong but I think most reefers think to drastically about small changes in the salinity of their tanks. Trust me 35 to 40 ppt is not a huge change. Salt makes up less than 20% of our water. There are more things to worry about then chasing perfect salinity like temperature and alkalinity.

But everyone seriously it is super easy to maintain stable salinity so not sure why y’all are having such a hard time. Setup a good ato system and you should be good.

 

[joekool]

I’ll say this almost 90 % of the time you’ll only here about bad experiences and not good ones it’s like the news rarely anything good. There are over 10k apex users and if it was truly that big of an issue with these probes they would be doing something about it. I own multiple apex units. I have a probe that’s years old and new ones, they all are perfectly accurate and very stable. Also all only calibrated once.

If there’s something wrong most likely it’s something your doing or not doing right.

Could Neptune give more info about setup and possible interference with said probe yes.

I have helped many people fix incorrect readings and fluctuations with much success.

I will be posting an article soon about the probe on how to successfully use the probe and keep it stable.

 

[AdamNC]

I mounted my salinity probe submerged upside down so bubbles escape easily. It’s been very reliable since making that change.

About every other day I give my probe a few taps to make sure no bubble build up. Haven’t had any issues since figuring that out and compare it to my refractometer monthly.

 

[PerplexyHexy]

I’ll say this almost 90 % of the time you’ll only here about bad experiences and not good ones it’s like the news rarely anything good. There are over 10k apex users and if it was truly that big of an issue with these probes they would be doing something about it. I own multiple apex units. I have a probe that’s years old and new ones, they all are perfectly accurate and very stable. Also all only calibrated once.

If there’s something wrong most likely it’s something your doing or not doing right.

Could Neptune give more info about setup and possible interference with said probe yes.

I have helped many people fix incorrect readings and fluctuations with much success.

I will be posting an article soon about the probe on how to successfully use the probe and keep it stable.

Just an opinion from my experience with the salinity probe bud... just like you have your opinion... everyones experience is different... Not everyone is gonna have everything working 100% perfectly... Just not gonna happen. I dont know too many products with 100% satisfaction... Its the feedback that is vital for people to make the correct decisions with their hard earned cash... I know I read every single review possible when I make purchases so I can make the right decision... I appreciate the good/bad reviews because I can weigh my options and see certain scenarios that could possibly turn up... Im not saying F Neptune in anyway. I went in knowing there were some issues with some probes and it is the case a small percentage of people have issues with the salinity probe. Thats all...

 

[Sleepydoc]

Continuous conductance salinity probes are notoriously inaccurate. There are multiple factors that can skew the readings, and like some other people have posted, the only real purpose of a salinity probe is to detect issues with the ATO.

Like someone said above, set up a good ATO and you really shouldn't need to check more than once a week, if that. I still have mine hooked up, but I quit looking at it long ago. Honestly, I think you need to share some of the blame for not double checking the salty before correcting it.

 

[Waters]

I agree that they are inaccurate.....mine swings all over the place all day long, and always has. As stated, I just watch it for large swings. I also agree that salinity is easy to keep stable....unless you are using an auto water change system. My DOS seems to pump less water than it is pumping in, which causes the ATO to add a little extra water each day. I would always check salinity against a calibrated refractometer.

 

[joekool]

Guess I should say that I have 687 gallons of water in my system. Things definitely don’t fluctuate much as far as salinity but on smaller tanks I can see there being some fluctuations. But I bet if you were to test all day during these fluctuations you would see it with a good quality salinity reading source.
I also have a 55 that reads spot on too so. It really is just controlling the factors that affect quality readings. Having a spot on ato system helps. So many ato systems don’t add it fast enough or add a little to much but this is due to monitoring issues of the ato.

I will post all this in the article I’m writing so everyone has a better understanding of everything I’m talking about.

 

[ca1ore]

Maybe it was said, but was the OP using the apex salinity probe to automate SW additions? Hard to see why a bum apex salinity reading would affect actual levels otherwise. I experimented with a dual ATO system years ago. If salinity were below 34, a reservoir with low salinity would be triggered; otherwise just regular RODI. Abandoned the effort because, as others have correctly noted, the apex probe is neither accurate nor precise. It’s useful as an indicator of trends, but that is about it. I use mine now ONLY to trigger an alert.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Last time I changed out my probes I threw the conductivity probe in the trash and never thought twice about it.

 

[RMS18]

So you just stick your Milwaukee in the water and take a reading. Totally not the same as having a probe full time in the holder. There are many issues possibly related to your readings such as I stated before on this thread. I would be willing to help you get this right for you. You should haveonly needed to calibrate the probe once and if you have had to do it three times something else is going on. Just message me and I’ll help

The Milwaukee doesn't go into the water. You place a water sample on the lense. It's a digital refractometer. I can zero it every time with Rodi to assure it's accurate, and it is every time. I once did 10 readings and cleaned the lense with Rodi same reading each time. Temp also matches the tank water which the Neptune probe is exposed to.

 

[Wiskey]

Years ago when I bought one of these I was excited about having a third way to monitor the ATO (the other two is time on, and high water level warning) but this salt probe turned out to be totally worthless. Every day when my T5 lights come on it drops to about 30, when they shut off it comes up to 36.

I worked with Neptune to fix this, I removed everything lighting related from the stand and canopy and placed it on an extension cord in another room, but the only thing that could fix the issue was plugging the lights into another outlet. Any Apex bar they are plugged into cause the issue. The tank is grounded (by probe right next to the salinity sensor), the case of the lights is grounded, the tank is on a GFCI (or rather two of them) so I'm sure there is some interference traveling from the APEX power bar to the Salinity module. Neptune talks about how their sensors are better because they are isolated, but I don't see that as possible given my experience.

I need my apex to control my lights because incase of chiller failure it will turn them off. I refuse to remove this safety feature in order to get a salt probe to work. Because I would not make this change Neptune blamed the problem on my equipment and closed the case.

Whiskey

 

[MnFish1]

Guess I should say that I have 687 gallons of water in my system. Things definitely don’t fluctuate much as far as salinity but on smaller tanks I can see there being some fluctuations. But I bet if you were to test all day during these fluctuations you would see it with a good quality salinity reading source.
I also have a 55 that reads spot on too so. It really is just controlling the factors that affect quality readings. Having a spot on ato system helps. So many ato systems don’t add it fast enough or add a little to much but this is due to monitoring issues of the ato.

I will post all this in the article I’m writing so everyone has a better understanding of everything I’m talking about.

I liked your article, BTW. The question to me is - 'is the apex salinity monitor the best option?' My answer is 'no' - because of my personal experience. I want a piece of equipment that is more 'set it and forget it'. I dont mind cleaning something every now and then - but (and there are no micro bubbles in my tank - that I'm aware of) - this monitor would be fine one minute then lets say read from 35 to 58. Then (without doing anything) drop back to 35. There was no change in wiring, etc etc - and no removal of bubbles, etc.

I also agree with you - that - the 'need' for constant salinity monitoring seems 'overblown' - unless one has an ATO that could possibly dump a LOT of water into the tank. For mine (a 140 gallon system) - the most water that could 'accidentally drain in' is about 4 gallons - so I just started ignoring the salinity - except when I do water changes (and I use a refractometer).

 

[vetteguy53081]

I liked your article, BTW. The question to me is - 'is the apex salinity monitor the best option?' My answer is 'no' - because of my personal experience. I want a piece of equipment that is more 'set it and forget it'. I dont mind cleaning something every now and then - but (and there are no micro bubbles in my tank - that I'm aware of) - this monitor would be fine one minute then lets say read from 35 to 58. Then (without doing anything) drop back to 35. There was no change in wiring, etc etc - and no removal of bubbles, etc.

I also agree with you - that - the 'need' for constant salinity monitoring seems 'overblown' - unless one has an ATO that could possibly dump a LOT of water into the tank. For mine (a 140 gallon system) - the most water that could 'accidentally drain in' is about 4 gallons - so I just started ignoring the salinity - except when I do water changes (and I use a refractometer).

While im glad thru these suggestions to see my salinity get truer to actual, was this the design in which we have to place our probes sideways or upside down?? is this technology ??? JUST SAYING

 

[vangvace]

While im glad thru these suggestions to see my salinity get truer to actual, was this the design in which we have to place our probes sideways or upside down?? is this technology ??? JUST SAYING

In Neptune fashion, they design the product and the community figures out how to make it actually work. (I kid, I kid... mostly )