Aquaforest 1+2+3+ or ATI Essentials?

[BigJohnny]

Hey Reefers,

Kalkwasser can no longer keep up with the demand on my new system without raising pH too high so I'm going to implement one of these "wet" variations of classic balling. I was originally going with Triton but the company has been spiraling recently imo with the lack of availability/leaky milk carton situation (dumbest packaging decision ever btw).

Curious what everyone out there using these systems thinks about them, especially if you've used both! Open to other recommendations as well. I don't do water changes unless absolutely necessary when indicated via icp (hasn't happened yet), so I will need a balanced solution that contains all the macro/minor/ trace etc and does not rely on consistent water changes to correct shifts in ion balance.

Would love to know your system info + cost to run + dosing amounts + issues you have run into.

Thanks!

 

[Peng]

I use 123 and I find it pretty easy to use. It's just a small part you mix in with your normal 3 part dosing. I think they use the cartons to reduce plastic usage. But to your question, I like Aquaforest's 123 because it's relatively easy and dosing has always been a favorite of mine because it's less messy than using kalkwasser and it's easy to record how much you are dosing and adjust according to need.

 

[BigJohnny]

I use 123 and I find it pretty easy to use. It's just a small part you mix in with your normal 3 part dosing. I think they use the cartons to reduce plastic usage. But to your question, I like Aquaforest's 123 because it's relatively easy and dosing has always been a favorite of mine because it's less messy than using kalkwasser and it's easy to record how much you are dosing and adjust according to need.

Thanks for your input.

So you buy their calc/alk/mag/strong powders from them and mix everything up? How much do you think that saves you if so? I thought aqua forest used plastic, are you saying they use cartons too?

 

[BigJohnny]

No one else uses aquaforest or ati essentials?

 

[Anirban]

I am a AF123 user since last 2 years. I use their premix ones but will shift to mixing my own solutions soon. I do water changes but not weekly. I have ran it without water changing for months and ICP testing showed no issues. I use their other products too but not all.

 

[BigJohnny]

I am a AF123 user since last 2 years. I use their premix ones but will shift to mixing my own solutions soon. I do water changes but not weekly. I have ran it without water changing for months and ICP testing showed no issues. I use their other products too but not all.

Cool thanks! Any reason in particular you do water changes? How much are you dosing of each component daily on what size system?

What other products do you use?

 

[Anirban]

Its recommended from AF and I mainly do it as I run a bare bottom system. After 2-3 weeks I get lot of debris at the bottom so I just suck them up and put back the lost water. My system total water volume is 55 G but my tank is acro heavy and all in a full growth mode so they eat up 112 ml of each component divided into 8 equal doses.

 

[HolisticBear]

No one else uses aquaforest or ati essentials?

There is also Fauna Marin's 3 part. You read a bit about AF 123, a very rare post on ATI Essentials, and almost nothing on Fauna Marin's. My gut says they are likely interchangeable with each other and Triton Other Methods. I think the number of posts is heavily correlated with how often BRS mentions the parent company in their videos.

p.s. Last I looked, there was more AF activity on FB than R2R. Not sure about ATI/Fauna

 

[BigJohnny]

Its recommended from AF and I mainly do it as I run a bare bottom system. After 2-3 weeks I get lot of debris at the bottom so I just suck them up and put back the lost water. My system total water volume is 55 G but my tank is acro heavy and all in a full growth mode so they eat up 112 ml of each component divided into 8 equal doses.

Gotcha, thanks. No issues with climbing ca/mag by dosing in equal parts? Do you ever make individual adjustments to the big 3 or any other major/minor/trace?

 

[Anirban]

We use a term lock in which mean suppose you want your ALK/Ca/Mg ratio at 7.4/430/1320. Now before starting dosing components bring your parameters right there and then start dosing equal amount of dosing. Generally you have to play a bit but always increase/decrease the doses in same amount for all 3. You will see that they will balance each other out and now they are locked in. Once set they generally dont move at all. I generally dont dose any other element but sometime based on my coral colours I add additional Potassium or iodine.But thats like once or twice a month.

 

[BigJohnny]

There is also Fauna Marin's 3 part. You read a bit about AF 123, a very rare post on ATI Essentials, and almost nothing on Fauna Marin's. My gut says they are likely interchangeable with each other and Triton Other Methods. I think the number of posts is heavily correlated with how often BRS mentions the parent company in their videos.

p.s. Last I looked, there was more AF activity on FB than R2R. Not sure about ATI/Fauna

Yea I'm more interested in AF/ATI vs fauna marin because they should require less water changes since they are based on the ionically balanced classic balling where as fauna marin is balling light which requires frequent water changes to correct ionic balance.

I know AF recommends them still but ATI does not unless necessary and they are similarly based off of classic balling, just like triton. Unfortunately I don't use facebook, but maybe I'll check it out.

Thanks

 

[BigJohnny]

We use a term lock in which mean suppose you want your ALK/Ca/Mg ratio at 7.4/430/1320. Now before starting dosing components bring your parameters right there and then start dosing equal amount of dosing. Generally you have to play a bit but always increase/decrease the doses in same amount for all 3. You will see that they will balance each other out and now they are locked in. Once set they generally dont move at all. I generally dont dose any other element but sometime based on my coral colours I add additional Potassium or iodine.But thats like once or twice a month.

Yea ive used balling before but never without water changes until now. Part of the balancing is due to water changes. Many people experience calc/mag climbing overtime when dosing all 3 in equal amounts but glad you dont! Common issue with triton and ati essentials, the difference is ati essentials says if absolutely necessary you can adjust 2/3 dosage 25% max up/down to keep them from getting out of whack. They say most people have no issues dosing all 3 in equal though.

Thanks again

 

[Anirban]

You don't really need facebook. If you decided to go with AF just let me know. I am one of their USA representative and can help you with any of your queries. The facebook group is big and sometime gives you lot of parallel ideas some of which you don't even need. AF and ATI are full balling and can be run without water changes but I just like to give the system a bit of refreshment.

Generally if your corals are not using balanced amount of all elements then you will see a gradual increase in some elements but if they are having a balanced growth then you will not see any unusual thing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If what you want is ion balance, why not a two part such as ESV B-ionic?

 

[HolisticBear]

Yea I'm more interested in AF/ATI vs fauna marin because they should require less water changes since they are based on the ionically balanced classic balling where as fauna marin is balling light which requires frequent water changes to correct ionic balance.

At high dosing levels, I imagine it becomes an issue. Given your skimmer is removing salt, that cancels out some of the drift. At lower dosing levels, I imagine salinity can still creep down due to skimmer waste

 

[BigJohnny]

You don't really need facebook. If you decided to go with AF just let me know. I am one of their USA representative and can help you with any of your queries. The facebook group is big and sometime gives you lot of parallel ideas some of which you don't even need. AF and ATI are full balling and can be run without water changes but I just like to give the system a bit of refreshment.

Generally if your corals are not using balanced amount of all elements then you will see a gradual increase in some elements but if they are having a balanced growth then you will not see any unusual thing.

Thank you, I appreciate your offer and I will take you up on it if I go with AF. Which salt do you use?

 

[BigJohnny]

If what you want is ion balance, why not a two part such as ESV B-ionic?

I was under the impression that it was more expensive than AF or ati essentials and I thought you had to add your own magnesium as well lol, just looked it up and realized the magnesium is in the calcium jug(they really should say that) and that it appears to be much cheaper.....so it is no different that classic balling as far as ionic balance and including all major/minor/trace, just 2 parts instead of 3?

 

[BigJohnny]

At high dosing levels, I imagine it becomes an issue. Given your skimmer is removing salt, that cancels out some of the drift. At lower dosing levels, I imagine salinity can still creep down due to skimmer waste

I was talking about ionic balance shifts not salinity increases. All 2/3 part dosing systems will raise salinity without water changes of some kind. But yes, skimmer definitely helps mitigate that. So does my alkalinity monitor that pulls out about a liter a week in test water. Balling light will likely cause larger shifts in ionic balance without water changes than classic balling aka AF/Tropic Marin/ATI/Triton.

 

[Perry]

I was under the impression that it was more expensive than AF or ati essentials and I thought you had to add your own magnesium as well lol, just looked it up and realized the magnesium is in the calcium jug(they really should say that) and that it appears to be much cheaper.....so it is no different that classic balling as far as ionic balance and including all major/minor/trace, just 2 parts instead of 3?

The nice thing about making your own 3 part Comp 123 is the ability to alter recipe to accommodate higher/lower mag and ca. The system is derived by alk usage, which is Comp 2 of the Comp123 system, all others intended to dose equally. I eventually balanced out and found AF recommended recipe to be pretty close to dead on without a need to tweek the recipe. My alk remained very steady, my 120 gallon tank was using 230ml of each per day, 60+ Acropora colonies, all larger than softballs, some volleyball to basketball size, LOL

 

[HolisticBear]

I was talking about ionic balance shifts not salinity increases. All 2/3 part dosing systems will raise salinity without water changes of some kind. But yes, skimmer definitely helps mitigate that. So does my alkalinity monitor that pulls out about a liter a week in test water. Balling light will likely cause larger shifts in ionic balance without water changes than classic balling aka AF/Tropic Marin/ATI/Triton.

Gotcha, my mistake. That brings up the different way people use their Alkalinity monitor. Some have it adjust their 3 parts, while others have it add only Alkalinity. The latter assuming minor deviations are due to non-coral consumption and when they detect a trend, then they adjust their dosing of the 3/4 parts. People who use the 1st approach, will likely see more increase in Ca/Mg. Every tank is different. You have the AF + Chemistry gurus already on this thread