Aquaforest 1+2+3+ or ATI Essentials?

[BigJohnny]

The nice thing about making your own 3 part Comp 123 is the ability to alter recipe to accommodate higher/lower mag and ca. The system is derived by alk usage, which is Comp 2 of the Comp123 system, all others intended to dose equally. I eventually balanced out and found AF recommended recipe to be pretty close to dead on without a need to tweek the recipe. My alk remained very steady, my 120 gallon tank was using 230ml of each per day, 60+ Acropora colonies, all larger than softballs, some volleyball to basketball size, LOL

Haha I'm confused, the nice part about it is that you can tweak it but you found out you didn't need to tweak it?

Glad it works for you though. Ever do an icp? Just curious.

Do you do water changes?

Thanks!

 

[BigJohnny]

Gotcha, my mistake. That brings up the different way people use their Alkalinity monitor. Some have it adjust their 3 parts, while others have it add only Alkalinity. The latter assuming minor deviations are due to non-coral consumption and when they detect a trend, then they adjust their dosing of the 3/4 parts. People who use the 1st approach, will likely see more increase in Ca/Mg. Every tank is different. You have the AF + Chemistry gurus already on this thread

no doubt, good point.

 

[Perry]

Haha I'm confused, the nice part about it is that you can tweak it but you found out you didn't need to tweak it?

Glad it works for you though. Ever do an icp? Just curious.

Do you do water changes?

Thanks!

LOL Yes I did tweek for awhile, as I felt the recipe produced a higher CA and MG level than I preferred with alk steady at 6.8dkh, so I used less CA and MG powders. After about 3 months or so, the values lowered, and I returned to mixing according to directions/recipe. Yes with ICP, and water changes every 2-3 weeks at 5-10%, not really necessary, ICP revealed parameters all very well in check. Again, when you mix the recipe yourself, you can make adjustments based on your levels, but ultimately you should find linear balance between all 3 liquids dosed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I was under the impression that it was more expensive than AF or ati essentials and I thought you had to add your own magnesium as well lol, just looked it up and realized the magnesium is in the calcium jug(they really should say that) and that it appears to be much cheaper.....so it is no different that classic balling as far as ionic balance and including all major/minor/trace, just 2 parts instead of 3?

I haven't recently compared costs, and have not seen a chemical analysis of either Balling or any two part, but ...

A perfectly implemented two part (as ESV claims to be) and perfectly implemented Balling (as Tropic marine claims to be) are nearly identical, with a two part just putting the other ions in the two parts, while Balling keeps them all in the sodium chloride-free salt part. It is possible that the salinity rise over time is a bit higher with a two part since it may take more ion juggling to put the right chemicals into the two parts.

That said, I'm not sure exactly how well each of these systems accounts for various uncertainties, particularly magnesium, the demand for which depends on the exact nature of the organisms and abiotic precipitation that is taking it up. Coralline algae, for example, uses more magnesium relative to calcium and alkalinity than do many hard corals. It is something I agonized over in designing my DIY, but I've never seen any discussion on this topic from either of these two manufacturers (or any other one, for that matter). Probably no one wants to admit to any possible imperfection.

 

[Perry]

Hi Randy,
FWIW, I did notice that my system was rather devoid of coralline algae in the peak of running AF balling, I rarely had to scrape the glass. Albeit, the corals looked incredible, but always wondered why, I thought it was likely due to lack of nutrients in the system. The corraline algae was massive using 2 part formula, but when I switched, it sort of subsided or was stunted in growth. I am no chemist, so no real definitive explanation, just an observation.

 

[Projecttrinh]

You don't really need facebook. If you decided to go with AF just let me know. I am one of their USA representative and can help you with any of your queries. The facebook group is big and sometime gives you lot of parallel ideas some of which you don't even need. AF and ATI are full balling and can be run without water changes but I just like to give the system a bit of refreshment.

Generally if your corals are not using balanced amount of all elements then you will see a gradual increase in some elements but if they are having a balanced growth then you will not see any unusual thing.

Hi @Anirban , I'm looking at switching to AF as well and curious about water changes. If parameters are locked in and you have the amounts you want to dose everyday to maintain them. Do you also dose on the day of water change or don't dose that day? Also, do you have to adjust your dosing to adjust for the water change? Thanks in advance.

 

[wmwesty]

Yea I'm more interested in AF/ATI vs fauna marin because they should require less water changes since they are based on the ionically balanced classic balling where as fauna marin is balling light which requires frequent water changes to correct ionic balance.

I know AF recommends them still but ATI does not unless necessary and they are similarly based off of classic balling, just like triton. Unfortunately I don't use facebook, but maybe I'll check it out.

Thanks

I disagree Fauna Marine is ionically balanced it’s a three part using mineral salts to correct balance

 

[BigJohnny]

I disagree Fauna Marine is ionically balanced it’s a three part using mineral salts to correct balance

You are thinking of tropic marin which is classic balling.

 

[Muttley000]

I am using the ATI essentials. I just started dosing, have never dosed before. I can only tell you it mixes easily, and even being a dosing newb it only took me a week to get it dialed in. I did the initial ICP test and it showed my 2 year old system only lacking in molybdenum which I manually dosed per ATI's recomendation. I want to let things settle out for a few weeks now before I send in another test to see how I am doing. I know it's not much info, but it is all I have!

 

[BigJohnny]

I am using the ATI essentials. I just started dosing, have never dosed before. I can only tell you it mixes easily, and even being a dosing newb it only took me a week to get it dialed in. I did the initial ICP test and it showed my 2 year old system only lacking in molybdenum which I manually dosed per ATI's recomendation. I want to let things settle out for a few weeks now before I send in another test to see how I am doing. I know it's not much info, but it is all I have!

Thanks bud, i appreciate it. I wish ATI offered a mix it yourself option like Aquaforest does. The cost of the premix are comparible, but the fact that you can buy the bulk individual components and mix with aquaforest makes it much cheaper. Thats one reason why im leaning towards AF.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi Randy,
FWIW, I did notice that my system was rather devoid of coralline algae in the peak of running AF balling, I rarely had to scrape the glass. Albeit, the corals looked incredible, but always wondered why, I thought it was likely due to lack of nutrients in the system. The corraline algae was massive using 2 part formula, but when I switched, it sort of subsided or was stunted in growth. I am no chemist, so no real definitive explanation, just an observation.

I’m not sure why that was, exactly. Could be lots of reasons, or even something unrelated to the change.

 

[jsker]

I have been using the 1+2+3+ for over 2 years and the system once balance the corals took of with growth and color. I mix my own and save over %60 percent verses buying the pre mix. I use the Aquaforest reef salt. and just the 1+2+3+ now

 

[BigJohnny]

I have been using the 1+2+3+ for over 2 years and the system once balance the corals took of with growth and color. I mix my own and save over %60 percent verses buying the pre mix. I use the Aquaforest reef salt. and just the 1+2+3+ now

Ever do icp and need to adjust anything? I'm assuming you do weekly wc?

 

[Anirban]

Hi @Anirban , I'm looking at switching to AF as well and curious about water changes. If parameters are locked in and you have the amounts you want to dose everyday to maintain them. Do you also dose on the day of water change or don't dose that day? Also, do you have to adjust your dosing to adjust for the water change? Thanks in advance.

Nope, I dont stop or adjust the dosing on water change day. It automatically balances out in a day or two. My salt doesnt have much different parameter than where I keep my tank so not a big deal. I only change dosing when my Alk demand increases.

 

[BigJohnny]

Nope, I dont stop or adjust the dosing on water change day. It automatically balances out in a day or two. My salt doesnt have much different parameter than where I keep my tank so not a big deal. I only change dosing when my Alk demand increases.

What salt do you use and what params do you keep your tank at?

 

[Anirban]

What salt do you use and what params do you keep your tank at?

AF reef salt
Alk-7.7
Ca-430
Mg-1320
K-410

 

[mike werner]

You don't really need facebook. If you decided to go with AF just let me know. I am one of their USA representative and can help you with any of your queries. The facebook group is big and sometime gives you lot of parallel ideas some of which you don't even need. AF and ATI are full balling and can be run without water changes but I just like to give the system a bit of refreshment.

Generally if your corals are not using balanced amount of all elements then you will see a gradual increase in some elements but if they are having a balanced growth then you will not see any unusual thing.

hey anirban,i did not know you were a af rep.did you see my thread on af micro e bottles being underfilled? I emailed them twice and never got a responce

 

[Anirban]

hey anirban,i did not know you were a af rep.did you see my thread on af micro e bottles being underfilled? I emailed them twice and never got a responce

Nope, but I can find that.

 

[Anirban]

hey anirban,i did not know you were a af rep.did you see my thread on af micro e bottles being underfilled? I emailed them twice and never got a responce

Post this in Aquaforest forum here .....we can look into it from there.
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/aquaforest.857/

 

[mike werner]

did it.thanks for looking into this.i'm sure someone else has run into this besides me.