Are Mercury-Containing Lights Doomed to Extinction?

[Shon]

I wonder if the world goverments will also ban lead gas from airplanes. How many years has it been since people learned lead gas is bad?

Why are the powers that be not going after all mercury in the landfills?

One dumpster, from one AC company, for a few months before they relocated. I can only imagine how much was tossed for the years prior and all the other companies in every city just throwing mercury away.

And I still can't find a place that disposes of it.

5 milligram of mercury in one cfl vs 2.8 grams in one thermostat. 2800/5=560.. 560 bulbs to one thermostat. Sad. But at least your Nest has wifi, right?

But to answer the thread title: Doubtful. Few examples. LED tanning beds are actually therapy beds, no UV, no tan. UVC lamps in hosiptal air conditioning, water treatment, food prep.. Mercury Vapor lamps for reptiles..

Now for actual lights for viewing.. maybe they'll phase out.

 

[Shon]

Btw, that photo is the contents of one pill bottle. I have 5 more bottles..

 

[oreo54]

Cfl' s " died" because not only do they have mercury but efficiency sucked as did lifespan.

250-watt metal halide and high-pressure sodium light bulbs contain 38 mg and 15 mg of mercury respectively

For reference.

I doubt that in the US many are still using mercury based thermostats .Natural selection.
I agree though that the " little people" get the brunt of regulations
Maybe stop industry from writing them..

Technically leds can replace merc uv lights BUT not economically
Not quite sure if they are as energy efficient at this point though.
Guess it is.

The wall-plug efficiency of the mercury system is only 2.8%, or 10% of the lamp efficiency. The LED wall-plug efficiency is almost double. Both systems deliver 700 mW of effective UV-C energy, but the LED system does that with half of the electrical power.Apr 20, 2021

 

[HuduVudu]

I think a more interesting question is how do you recover the mecury to be reused in something else, and more importantly make a profit doing it.

 

[oreo54]

I think a more interesting question is how do you recover the mecury to be reused in something else, and more importantly make a profit doing it.

"All" you need to do is make mercury mining and extraction more expensive than recycling.
Good luck with that.

5. Where do the world's supplies of mercury come from?

The natural levels of mercury in the Earth’s crust vary from place to place, but average about 50 mg per tonne of rock. Mercury is mined when present in cinnabar ores, which generally contain about 10 kg per tonne of rock.

www.greenfacts.org

Actually after reading the above we could already have mined enough mercury.

 

[jda]

My town and a few next to us have a site where you can drop off unbroken mercury bulbs, thermometers, etc. They have a bin next to batteries of all types. It is open 24/7 for drop off. I really suggest that anybody use these if they have them nearby. It is not like they cannot sit around until you have enough to make a trip worthwhile.

 

[HuduVudu]

My town and a few next to us have a site where you can drop off unbroken mercury bulbs, thermometers, etc. They have a bin next to batteries of all types. It is open 24/7 for drop off. I really suggest that anybody use these if they have them nearby. It is not like they cannot sit around until you have enough to make a trip worthwhile.

Whelp I guess I have to put that on my list ... find bulb drop off.

 

[HuduVudu]

"All" you need to do is make mercury mining and extraction more expensive than recycling.
Good luck with that.

5. Where do the world's supplies of mercury come from?

The natural levels of mercury in the Earth’s crust vary from place to place, but average about 50 mg per tonne of rock. Mercury is mined when present in cinnabar ores, which generally contain about 10 kg per tonne of rock.

www.greenfacts.org

Actually after reading the above we could already have mined enough mercury.

Saw a great article on lithium battery recovery. Funny thing about these recovery operations is that they are usually picking things up as trash and they run into supply issues.

Not sure how the mecury mining sourcing and supply goes, but having dealt with a lot of different markets I find it funny how there is always a place for a niche to form. All it takes is one man with a vision.

Guess I will have to go down the rabbit hole and see what I can find.

 

[Nonya]

Technically leds can replace merc uv lights BUT not economically

UV-C LEDs?

 

[Timfish]

We can hope!

 

[Nonya]

I remember in high school when the chemistry teacher gave us some to hold in our hands and pass around.

 

[Brian_68]

I am not missing the point at all. There is lead in all circuit boards, but because these things are useful to people then there will be a great outcry from people if something is done to ban circuit boards. This doesn't make lead any less dangerous. The only thing left to be done is to try to pressure industry to try to remove the lead. This is as usual, easier said than done. Leave it to the authoritarians to push for it anyway.

To my point. We went through the industrial revolution. Things got better. We couldn't be here without having come from there. It was a dirty nasty polluting time for sure, and I am sure we will look back on this time in a similar fashion. They didn't get better because some bureacrat said "Get gud". No things got better becuase there was a competition to create more desirable products. This happened incrementally. The old products that they replaced did not go away. Instead their markets simply shrank. I am sure there is still a thriving niche industry centered around buggy whips.

You can't mandate inovation. You can't shove it. You can't force it. Those that do fail. Even when a new tech wants to emerge, and in that cause mandating delays the innovation that so desperately wants to come.

I want electric cars. Not because of the ignorant argument of green energy, but from the very real issue of maintenance reduction. There are many other things that EVs bring. The other one is the consolidation of pollution, and thus allowing for economies of scale to deal with said pollution. This right here can cut tons of cost out of EVs because the pollution doesn't need to be dealt with on every vehicle. EVs are by and large powered with ineffecient grids and coal power, and use rare earth minerals mined with fossil fuels. Fine by me because the good is the victor over the perfect. Mark my words though it will be the government and the large car manufacturers that will get in the way of this truly awesome market innovation.


My point is that third world countries don't care about the environment. They never will. I have lived in the PI, I understand the mentality.

Since so little of the world actually has wealth, all of the first world regulation is pointless. I can get VW bug parts from Mexico. Making it illegal only sets up black markets. This makes things even worse. The reason I brought up Bugs is because Bugs are cleaner running and cheaper than what was available before. Once again it is incremental improvment that changes things, not sweeping changes from bureacrats.

The right way to deal with this problem is innovation. Regulations are strangling business' and putting money in the hands of the corrupt. This just enriches the corrupt and limits business' ability to innovate. That innovation is what is going to solve the problem.


I can grow coral with LEDs. I am even happy with the growth. The market hasn't figured out that that isn't the problem of output but something else. Doubling output isn't going to make LEDs more desirable. Until the market figures out the real problem then they will not be able to grow further.

Ultimately my point is that people think laws stop things. They think that it is all settled while the people that want things will ultimately get what they want.

Case in point my wife occasionally needs an inhaler. Quick trip to the Mexican border and I can get her what she needs that is the same quality at a fraction of the price. The entire bureacracy set up to ostensibaly to protect her has fallen under regulatory capture and the only reason for it now is to protect the profit of a few at her expense. This is always the case.

Fortunately, I have seen this before. This hobby doesn't have clout and gets shoved around quite often. It will come and it will go but there will always be the ignorant to push well meaning regulations.

I have put my money on the table. I have skin in the game. I made my choice based on my understanding. If I am wrong then I will lose my money, but I wouldn't be betting if I thought I was wrong.

ROHS has been a requirement for years. Lead in circuit boards is very limited.

 

[Brian_68]

California's definition of specialty lighted does not include aquarium lighting:

Specialty Lighting​

California law excludes “specialty lighting” from the definition of general purpose lights. Specialty lighting includes the following lights:

• appliance
• black light
• bug
• colored
• infrared
• left-hand thread
• marine
• marine signal service
• mine service
• plant light
• reflector

• rough service
• shatter resistant
• sign service
• silver bowl
• showcase
• three-way
• traffic signal
• vibration service or vibration resistant

 

[HuduVudu]

California's definition of specialty lighted does not include aquarium lighting:

Specialty Lighting​

California law excludes “specialty lighting” from the definition of general purpose lights. Specialty lighting includes the following lights:

• appliance
• black light
• bug
• colored
• infrared
• left-hand thread
• marine
• marine signal service
• mine service
• plant light
• reflector
• rough service
• shatter resistant
• sign service
• silver bowl
• showcase
• three-way
• traffic signal
• vibration service or vibration resistant

LUL.

The bulbs where always borrowed (as is almost everything in this hobby) from other industries.

Also it is CA, everything is banned in CA.

Seriously try again.

 

[Brian_68]

Seems to me MH are getting another extension to the exemption for ROHS:

blob:https://ec.europa.eu/99a938b7-4547-4f59-85ab-04e769f138d1

EN 4 EN
COMMISSION DELEGATED DIRECTIVE (EU) .../...
of 13.12.2021
amending, for the purposes of adapting to scientific and technical progress, Annex III to
Directive 2011/65/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council as regards an
exemption for the use of mercury in metal halide lamps
(Text with EEA relevance)
THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION,
Having regard to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union,
Having regard to Directive 2011/65/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of
8 June 2011 on the restriction of the use of certain hazardous substances in electrical and
electronic equipment1, and in particular Article 5(1), point (a), thereof,
Whereas:
(1) Directive 2011/65/EU requires Member States to ensure that electrical and electronic
equipment placed on the market does not contain the hazardous substances listed in
Annex II to that Directive. That restriction does not apply to certain exempted
applications listed in Annex III to that Directive.
(2) The categories of electrical and electronic equipment to which Directive 2011/65/EU
applies are listed in Annex I to that Directive.
(3) Mercury is a restricted substance listed in Annex II to Directive 2011/65/EU.
(4) By Decision 2010/571/EU2, the Commission granted, among other things, an
exemption for the use of mercury in metal halide lamps (‘the exemption’), which is
now listed as exemption 4(e) in Annex III to Directive 2011/65/EU. The exemption
was to expire on 21 July 2016, in accordance with Article 5(2), second subparagraph,
point (a), of that Directive.
(5) Mercury is used in metal halide lamps to improve the colour, efficiency, lifetime, and
the stable operation of those specific lamps.
(6) On 15 January 2015, the Commission received an application for renewal of the
exemption (‘the renewal application’) that is within the time limit laid down in Article
5(5) of Directive 2011/65/EU. An updated renewal application was submitted on 20
January 2020. In accordance with Article 5(5) of that Directive, the exemption remains
valid until a decision on the renewal application has been adopted.
(7) The evaluation of the renewal application, which took into account the availability of
substitutes and the socioeconomic impact of substitution, concluded that the
substitution or elimination of mercury in the applications concerned is currently
technically impracticable. The evaluation included stakeholder consultations in
accordance with Article 5(7) of Directive 2011/65/EU. The comments received during
those consultations were made publicly available on a dedicated website.
(8) The exemption is consistent with Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006 of the European
Parliament and of the Council3 and thus does not weaken the environmental and health
protection afforded by it.
(9) It is therefore appropriate to grant the renewal of the exemption for a maximum period
of five years, in accordance with Article 5(2), first subparagraph, of Directive
2011/65/EU. In view of the results of the ongoing efforts to find a reliable substitution,
the duration of the exemption is unlikely to have adverse impacts on innovation

 

[Brian_68]

LUL.

The bulbs where always borrowed (as is almost everything in this hobby) from other industries.

Also it is CA, everything is banned in CA.

Seriously try again.

Try what again, just quoting the law as it stands.

 

[Nonya]

LUL.

LUL?

Also it is CA, everything is banned in CA.

That's generally where it starts before spreading to the rest of the country.

 

[oreo54]

UV-C LEDs?

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www.digitallightlab.com

 

[Nonya]

Try what again, just quoting the law as it stands.

No, you really need to try again. Seriously. No, really. LOL

 

[HuduVudu]

Ok, I am out this is just dumb.

CA has laws on the books for everything. They love it because it allows them to extract money from industry. As stated corruption. Companies just go around them and pay the fines when they get caught and everyone is happy that they did something to stop Thing(tm).

If you want to believe the sky is falling then buy LEDs and be secure in your sanctity.