Article: Are LEDs a suitable primary light source? + a thread.

[A. grandis]

Hi guys,
I like zoanthids very much and spend some of the time in the zoa forum.
There is a nice thread about lighting discussion there:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/l...oas-discussion-what-are-your-thoughts.268851/
I just found this LED forum and though it would be great to share with you.
There are some nice folks participating and the discussion has been very edifying and polite.
Please feel free to read and understand other options of lights.
We all respect other's point of view and opinions, but there are truths that should be exposed.
Hope the thread will open your point of view.
It wouldn't be fair to have you out of the thread.
Please read this article also:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/are-leds-a-suitable-primary-light-source.42/

***Sorry, but I'm a very busy guy and won't be able to post here, but will try to post there...***

Aloha to all,
Grandis.

 

[happyhourhero]

I commend you and the effort you put forth across various forums to try and dissuade people from using LED. Quite simply, LED is a viable, primary light source. There are countless examples proving such. Crusade on.

 

[A. grandis]

I commend you and the effort you put forth across various forums to try and dissuade people from using LED. Quite simply, LED is a viable, primary light source. There are countless examples proving such. Crusade on.

I hope my effort can open the eyes of many to understand the truth about the subject.
I see a lot of misinformation and empty beliefs about all types of light systems for reef tanks and will try my best to pass the info I learn with others.
I believe we should help each other and really see the points instead just swallow what the market/forums are trying to feed us!

Please visit and read the thread, read the very interesting article by Mr. Jeremy Gosnell, and see that many are posting huge valuable information about the subject of lighting for reefs in that thread.
We are all friends here and this site is the only one that I'm spending my precious time participating due to the respect and warmth of our fellas.
I welcome you all to be part of the list in that thread and to allow your mind to understand that I'm not against the LEDs, but I want people to see the truth about them.
Who knows... one day you will be on my side, my friend.

Grandis.

 

[gus6464]

I hope my effort can open the eyes of many to understand the truth about the subject.
I see a lot of misinformation and empty beliefs about all types of light systems for reef tanks and will try my best to pass the info I learn with others.
I believe we should help each other and really see the points instead just swallow what the market/forums are trying to feed us!

Please visit and read the thread, read the very interesting article by Mr. Jeremy Gosnell, and see that many are posting huge valuable information about the subject of lighting for reefs in that thread.
We are all friends here and this site is the only one that I'm spending my precious time participating due to the respect and warmth of our fellas.
I welcome you all to be part of the list in that thread and to allow your mind to understand that I'm not against the LEDs, but I want people to see the truth about them.
Who knows... one day you will be on my side, my friend.

Grandis.

Seriously though. I think you would switch more people to the dark side if you showcased real coral with T5 or MH and not rinky dinky zoas. You can grow zoas with a flashlight. Show me the good stuff.

 

[A. grandis]

Seriously though. I think you would switch more people to the dark side if you showcased real coral with T5 or MH and not rinky dinky zoas. You can grow zoas with a flashlight. Show me the good stuff.

It is illegal to have hard corals in captivity though the state of Hawaii, therefore we have only Hawaiian zoas in our LFS and at home.
Grandis.

 

[Knapp870]

Are you really going to try this again in another area!? LEDs work great to grow all sorts of corals. Proven.fact.

How is this argument even a thought?! We are like a decade into the use of led's.

I will mention the challenge I posed in the other thread you started. Let's have a grow challenge! I still haven't seen any t5 takers

 

[A. grandis]

Are you really going to try this again in another area!? LEDs work great to grow all sorts of corals. Proven.fact.

How is this argument even a thought?! We are like a decade into the use of led's.

I will mention the challenge I posed in the other thread you started. Let's have a grow challenge! I still haven't seen any t5 takers

No, I'm not trying anything like that here!! Just sharing info.
Not here for any type of contest or whatever you are thinking...
And I don't sell lights! LOL!
If you've read all the tread and saw what I and others posted, besides that article, should be enough.
Then you analyze and have your own opinion. Simple as that.
It's not about proving anything to anyone, just to share my opinion and the article.
I don't know why people get so upset and hurt just by talking and sharing what we believe it's the truth!
I'm not alone! Go see for yourself!
There is so many good and important info in that thread that you should be happy!!
Besides, every single thing that LED lovers brought up was to actually let us know the truth about LEDs not being the best PRIMARY source of light for a reef system. That's all.
You are taking way too seriously and defending LEDs like I'm your enemy. That's not the case!
Please consider those articles along the thread and just respect the space we have for the discussion.
I strongly believe that is valuable to the hobby and all of us.
To be rude and too defensive is not a good atitude.

Grandis.

 

[NanaReefer]

No, I'm not trying anything like that here!! Just sharing info.
Not here for any type of contest or whatever you are thinking...
And I don't sell lights! LOL!
If you've read all the tread and saw what I and others posted, besides that article, should be enough.
Then you analyze and have your own opinion. Simple as that.
It's not about proving anything to anyone, just to share my opinion and the article.
I don't know why people get so upset and hurt just by talking and sharing what we believe it's the truth!
I'm not alone! Go see for yourself!
There is so many good and important info in that thread that you should be happy!!
Besides, every single thing that LED lovers brought up was to actually let us know the truth about LEDs not being the best PRIMARY source of light for a reef system. That's all.
You are taking way too seriously and defending LEDs like I'm your enemy. That's not the case!
Please consider those articles along the thread and just respect the space we have for the discussion.
I strongly believe that is valuable to the hobby and all of us.
To be rude and too defensive is not a good atitude.

Grandis.

Sounds like you're the one who's taking it to seriously.
Why do you care so much how others light their tanks? Why are you out to prove that LED's are less superior than other forms of lighting?
You're going to get challenged on this subject so be prepared.
LED's are an excellent form of PRIMARY lighting for corals. That is my opinion [emoji38]

 

[Neil Fox]

I am actually experimenting with this a little bit. I have three tanks with three very different types of lighting, all work well and even what may be considered less than optimal intensity, I have been really surprised by the Current USA fixture, this is on a 6 gal nano that grows SPS like a weed. I have a larger tank around 45 gal that uses Chinese Black Boxes, stuff grows pretty well in there also, in fact very good, the pinks tend to darken over time and there is some shadowing though. The third is a pretty new setup, 2' x 2' x 1' frag tank. This one has a 14K 250 w Radium, 2ea ATI actinic and 2ea ATI super blues. It is still a little early to tell, running about a month but the SPS in that tank are doing good. I like the old school approach and I am starting to see some changes in coloration between the frags and mother colonies. I haven't measured the par but I m pretty sure it's over 600 dead center. That being said, the LED lighted tanks do a lot better than I expected, I think that a hybrid T5 LED would do anything you want. The MH T5 is still my personal favorite but the Black Box is easily the most economical. I was skeptical but if I was to set up a bigger display, that is the way I would go unless I just happened to hit the lottery or something.

 

[bif24701]

The best SPS/mixed reef tanks I've seen personally have been a T5 and Kessil hybrid lighting system.

I have the Kessil AP700s they are too new for long term systems to have been established for "proof" but all other Kessil products have done extremely well. Currently they have had much success as the single lighting source. I feel this is because of the Kessil Logic spectrum control, the fish eye lenses, and the Dense Matrix Array. But LEDs have had success since the first gen of modern LED aquarium reef lights (AI SOL, Radion). By far the majority of corals that had been available at that time where aquaculture under MH and T5s and those corals chosen because they did very well with those lighting systems. However no LEDs have begun to dominate new aquaculture facilities and new different corals are being chosen and propagated under LEDs so the corals that do well are becoming the majority, no longer the minority.

I still have not seen you post and actual evidence that LEDs "don't work". Because frankly that statement is so generalized it's borderline ignorance. Of course LEDs are suitable as a primary lighting source and to say otherwise is simply ignorant. It is possible that some corals do better under different lighting but I'm sure there are just as many that do better under LEDs.

Maybe if you had actual industry knowledge or education in anyway that related to this subject I might consider further what you claim but you don't, or at least haven't offered any facts to lead me to a different conclusion.

Sanjay is a person that I consider a world respected source for MH, VHO and T5 lighting systems. He has written many articles and done countless tests. He set the standards for reef aquarium lighting setups, literally, before modern LEDs!! Sanjay switched to LEDs and loves them.

Here is the proof, you should try finding some and using it, https://reefs.com/2016/01/05/leds-500-gallon-reef/

This thread is dumb.

 

[bif24701]

Hi guys,
I like zoanthids very much and spend some of the time in the zoa forum.
There is a nice thread about lighting discussion there:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/l...oas-discussion-what-are-your-thoughts.268851/
I just found this LED forum and though it would be great to share with you.
There are some nice folks participating and the discussion has been very edifying and polite.
Please feel free to read and understand other options of lights.
We all respect other's point of view and opinions, but there are truths that should be exposed.
Hope the thread will open your point of view.
It wouldn't be fair to have you out of the thread.
Please read this article also:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/are-leds-a-suitable-primary-light-source.42/

***Sorry, but I'm a very busy guy and won't be able to post here, but will try to post there...***

Aloha to all,
Grandis.

Do you actually keep any hard corals?

 

[bif24701]

Hi guys,
I like zoanthids very much and spend some of the time in the zoa forum.
There is a nice thread about lighting discussion there:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/l...oas-discussion-what-are-your-thoughts.268851/
I just found this LED forum and though it would be great to share with you.
There are some nice folks participating and the discussion has been very edifying and polite.
Please feel free to read and understand other options of lights.
We all respect other's point of view and opinions, but there are truths that should be exposed.
Hope the thread will open your point of view.
It wouldn't be fair to have you out of the thread.
Please read this article also:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/are-leds-a-suitable-primary-light-source.42/

***Sorry, but I'm a very busy guy and won't be able to post here, but will try to post there...***

Aloha to all,
Grandis.

The "good thread" you link is just a thread started by you with most posters making all the same points I just did an yet you completely ignored their points and had no direct rebuttal.

So why did you feel a need to start a new one?


Here is my overall option on LEDs. They are certainly capable of being the sol primary lighting source of any reef tank. The problems (to this point mostly solved) are the blending, spread, and user error. User error being the biggest problem because most users are new to reefs and have zero experience with high powered LED aquarium lights. New reefers tend to use too much intensity and incorrect spectrum , they don't use a PAR meter to properly set up the light and almost never acclimate long and slow enough. LEDs are very powerful and have really good punching power through the water. New reefers should use a PAR meter and acclimate corals over the course of several weeks. LEDs are not plug and play like T5s/MH.

This current generation of LEDs however have addressed many of these issues and if the user would just take the time and proper equipment to get started there would be a drop in LED complaints by 200%.

Kessil Logic ensures that no matter the spectrum you chose it has been programmed to maximize the light to benefit the corals. Removing the endless options is the biggest leap forward I've seen.

Lenses and reflectors like the AP700 or the hemispherical lenses on the G4 Radion has made the second best evolution in LEDs. Blending the light very well and eliminating hot spots. The spread on my Kessil AP700s is almost as good as the large MH reflectors you see that virtually remove sharpe shadows.

Again I do feel that MH/T5s have advantages but so do LEDs. The line has been muddled so much today that it basically comes down to one thing: Personal Preferences!

Happy reefing!

 

[A. grandis]

Sounds like you're the one who's taking it to seriously.
Why do you care so much how others light their tanks? Why are you out to prove that LED's are less superior than other forms of lighting?
You're going to get challenged on this subject so be prepared.
LED's are an excellent form of PRIMARY lighting for corals. That is my opinion [emoji38]

I care about spreading the word specially to the beginners.
Believe if you want.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Do you actually keep and hard corals?

Can't, read above.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

The "good thread" you link is just a thread started by you with most posters making all the same points I just did an yet you completely ignored their points and had no direct rebuttal.

So why did you feel a need to start a new one?

It doesn't mean it isn't good. It actually became good because of the people bringing all the challenges and questions just to prove the point of the thread until now...
I guess that's why people get upset?

I posted here just to let you LED users to know. That's the focus of the thread there. Let LED users to know.
Doesn't matter if it's a hard coral or zoanthids. The quality of light is what dictates the subject.
Actually it's worse for the SPS to be under LEDs only anyway.

You know what I don't understand?
Why you guys are ignoring the article by Mr. Jeremy Gosnell?
Do you have any questions or disagreements to the article?
That would be a great way to start a conversation there.

I would like to see actually some serious comments about that article.
Not to put it down, but to enrich the thread in any way.
If you guys don't like the idea of the article/thread just don't bother.

There are so many people with LEDs reading the thread and not responding to it. That's fine.
Now.. I think if you guys have nothing substantial to add to the thread you should just keep the anger to yourselves and ignore it.
I just want to expose the ideas and the articles there for the people to see and think about it. if they are interested they can speak for themselves.
Too bad the most of the people that went back to their T5/MHs aren't participating.
Perhaps they don't care much about sharing? Or they want to save their energy enjoying their tanks.

Grandis.

 

[bif24701]

It doesn't mean it isn't good. It actually became good because of the people bringing all the challenges and questions just to prove the point of the thread until now...
I guess that's why people get upset?

I posted here just to let you LED users to know. That's the focus of the thread there. Let LED users to know.
Doesn't matter if it's a hard coral or zoanthids. The quality of light is what dictates the subject.
Actually it's worse for the SPS to be under LEDs only anyway.

You know what I don't understand?
Why you guys are ignoring the article by Mr. Jeremy Gosnell?
Do you have any questions or disagreements to the article?
That would be a great way to start a conversation there.

I would like to see actually some serious comments about that article.
Not to put it down, but to enrich the thread in any way.
If you guys don't like the idea of the article/thread just don't bother.

There are so many people with LEDs reading the thread and not responding to it. That's fine.
Now.. I think if you guys have nothing substantial to add to the thread you should just keep the anger to yourselves and ignore it.
I just want to expose the ideas and the articles there for the people to see and think about it. if they are interested they can speak for themselves.
Too bad the most of the people that went back to their T5/MHs aren't participating.
Perhaps they don't care much about sharing? Or they want to save their energy enjoying their tanks.

Grandis.

I just posted many points that you have just ignored.

I don't see what it is that your are trying to let "us" know. What is your point exactly?

"It's worse for SPS to be under LEDs only"

What direct evidence do you have that supports this?

 

[A. grandis]

I just posted many points that you have just ignored.

I don't see what it is that your are trying to let "us" know. What is your point exactly?

"It's worse for SPS to be under LEDs only"

What direct evidence do you have that supports this?

Go check the thread and read. That's all.
You don't want to read? Fine.

Did you read the article? What do you think?

Grandis.

 

[bif24701]

Go check the thread and read. That's all.
You don't want to read? Fine.

Did you read the article? What do you think?

Grandis.

What article? You have not linked any article I can see on this thread.

I just told you I read the thread.

Yet you are ignoring my points again

 

[bif24701]

I just want to say that the anecdotal evidence that's has been seen through out R2R and RC and many others so far outweigh your claim it's ridiculous.

Again, I'll say it one more time. All these lighting systems have their drawback and advantages. LEDs are a good GREAT primary lighting source for any reef aquarium.

 

[A. grandis]

I just want to say that the anecdotal evidence that's has been seen through out R2R and RC and many others so far outweigh your claim it's ridiculous.

Again, I'll say it one more time. All these lighting systems have their drawback and advantages. LEDs are a good GREAT primary lighting source for any reef aquarium.

This article:
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/are-leds-a-suitable-primary-light-source.42/

Please copy and paste your comments above there. This is not the place for the discussion.
Other people will participate too!
Thanks!
Grandis.