ATTN: ALL MAJOR POWERHEAD MANUFACTURERS

[tsav87]

Yeah, or Ecotech needs to make a wet side with a universal joint on the prop.

 

[tsav87]

Besides, putting the motor back in the tank flies in the face of Ecotechs marketing strategy...lol

 

[SPS Reefer]

They already have this: https://reefbuilders.com/2018/05/14/wireless-aquarium-concept-includes-led-light-filter/

 

[rygh]

Fun post.

First : It has been done!
Well sort of.
The original Seneye used wireless power transmission to power the sensors in the tank.
Not as much power as a power-head of course, and they switched to a wire for production.
But it is possible.

Second : There are other ways.
Using light for example. LEDs on the outside, A sizable, but very flat solar panel on the inside.

Third : There is a very cool extreme end case.
Magnetic fields can be used to pump water. No moving parts at all!
(Look up electromagnetic pump)
Totally impractical though.

But yes, Near Field Magnetic Induction is the normal go-to for that sort of thing.
Field rolls off on sixth power, so at high frequency, not a ton of loss due to water.
But I memory serves, 10 MH still has a 1M field, so you need up in the GHz range.
And if even a

All of those ideas have problems.
* You need to transmit 5W or so, which is a lot for wireless.
* Expense of all the electronics.
* Size of coils/whatever
* All the heat generated
* Inefficient pumps due to all the losses.
* Possible FCC licenses needed.
* A lot of design effort.

All that versus a little wire.

 

[chad vossen]

Power lost, sure, but how much? Is it significant? I think it's worth ($$$) investigating.

This video would shed some light on how this works. Expect about 60% efficiency

 

[Brew12]

Ok don't let that take your wind, How many of you have motors running in your tank? that is already a constant. The challenge is to create a secondary that also rotates or spins .Iso-trans can be a 1 to 1 ratio meaning that 100 volts in is 100 volts out, so motor speed & rotation correlates with voltage % and polarity that is already how most run. The challenge is to create a secondary that also rotates or spins and is water proof

In our aquariums, motor speed isn't determined by voltage % and polarity. I have yet to find an aquarium pump that doesn't use permanent magnets on the rotor. This means they are all AC synchronous motors. Their speed is (N) is equal to 120 multiplied by the applied frequency (f) divided by the number of poles.

The frequency can be manipulated in any number of ways, but is typically done using a modified square wave.

 

[siggy]

@Brew12 Hey relax, It was not my intent to under mine your supremacy or discredit your theory but to simply provoke thought and understanding, my term "most" was not directed at pond pumps or tank movers (.00001% motors produced) but to generalize an electric motor. You devised a theory to accomplish a task. Please let others.
This is another example where a flat plate stator and magnet that my produce desired results .........Is it all conjecture sure........... Tesla and Edison were both right..........

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Interesting idea. I think the closest that they'll ever come to that would be the ecotech vortechs. Problem is that you can't really send electricity through glass into water into a motor. As soon as the electricity hits the water it's going to disburse everywhere as water is a great conductor of electricity. So not only will the motor get the juice, so will everything in the tank.

And electricity takes the least resistant path. Equals problems. Still good idea.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Here's an idea to any and all manufacturers of aquarium powerheads. Wireless Electricity.

Put the pump propeller and motor inside of the tank, on a swivel to make it directional, hold it with a magnet from the outside, have a power cord attached to the outside magnet and supply wireless electricity to the motor inside of the aquarium. Boom, no wires, and you could point it in any direction.

There, that's my idea. No idea if it's possible, but.....maybe...

Thoughts anyone?

If sending voltage then amperage comes into picture. Then we're talking about ohms law. Nothing sold to public except wireless phone chargers. Can do that.at this time

 

[WVNed]

When everything runs on magic.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Edison made thousands of experiments before choosing right material for filament to bulb. We all are doing one or more experiments, so we keep at it, till successful. Best wishes

 

[TilmanBaumann]

What's going on here? So much nonsense.

Of course power transfer through magnetic coupling works through glas and water. But it's not a super efficient job. (Pesky inverse square law makes distance really relevant)

There are even products out there that use the concept.
But unsurprisingly not for anything high power.

But why? VorTech seemed to have hit the sweet spot with direct magnetic coupling of the drive motor.

Power electronics in the wet side would be possible. But expensive and quite an engineering challenge at higher powers.
Can be done, but I don't quite see the need.

I didn't watch the TED talk. Those power over distance solutions generally never work at sufficient powers.

But that doesn't matter. Very very different technologies.
We are looking at near field transfer not esoteric far field.
Think electric toothbrush.

Anyway. Consider the power transfer problem solved but likely expensive and a bit big and ugly.

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 Hey relax, It was not my intent to under mine your supremacy or discredit your theory but to simply provoke thought and understanding, my term "most" was not directed at pond pumps or tank movers (.00001% motors produced) but to generalize an electric motor. You devised a theory to accomplish a task. Please let others.
This is another example where a flat plate stator and magnet that my produce desired results .........Is it all conjecture sure........... Tesla and Edison were both right..........

I didn't intend to discourage you from devising a theory. I was only providing engineering information for you to use as you think about what you want to accomplish.

If you want a variable speed motor that works using volts per hz it can be done. Asynchronous machines like these are the most common motors made. The main reason they aren't used in the aquarium hobby is that if the rotor stalls it will generate high fault current and likely damage the motor. These motors do not have magnets on the rotor, they have electrical windings wound into them.

I have never taken mine apart, but I would be surprised if the Vortech's were not flat plate stators but with a single sided rotor.

 

[tsav87]

Well if nothing else, we all get a greater understanding of wireless electricity

 

[Brew12]

What's going on here? So much nonsense.

Of course power transfer through magnetic coupling works through glas and water. But it's not a super efficient job. (Pesky inverse square law makes distance really relevant)

There are even products out there that use the concept.
But unsurprisingly not for anything high power.

But why? VorTech seemed to have hit the sweet spot with direct magnetic coupling of the drive motor.

Power electronics in the wet side would be possible. But expensive and quite an engineering challenge at higher powers.
Can be done, but I don't quite see the need.

I didn't watch the TED talk. Those power over distance solutions generally never work at sufficient powers.
But that doesn't matter. Very very different technologies.
We are looking at near field transfer not esoteric far field.
Think electric toothbrush.

Anyway. Consider the power transfer problem solved but likely expensive and a bit big and ugly.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, just as an FYI, you can buy wireless electric car chargers. You have to park the car very exactly or adjust the pad each time, but they work!
https://www.pluglesspower.com/shop/

 

[TilmanBaumann]

https://reefbuilders.com/2018/05/14/wireless-aquarium-concept-includes-led-light-filter/

Surprise, the distance filter to induction pad is very low. The power those dinky little LED lights at the top get is much too low to drive anything useful. (That includes lights)

I don't think much will come of it. Nice concept. But not a problem that needs expensive solutions. And I doubt they actually push a lot of energy through it.

 

[Cherub]

Tesla did it 80 years ago or whatever. Just like he did free electricity for the world. Money is the only reason we're still behind

 

[TilmanBaumann]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But, just as an FYI, you can buy wireless electric car chargers. You have to park the car very exactly or adjust the pad each time, but they work!
https://www.pluglesspower.com/shop/

Yes. Nice stuff. Pretty large coils and still only
7.2kW. Still, pretty cool toy.
Love to see that built into highways one day. dang the inefficiencies.

 

[TilmanBaumann]

Tesla did it 80 years ago or whatever. Just like he did free electricity for the world. Money is the only reason we're still behind

 

[WVNed]

You can send power wirelessly. Power is the ability to do work. But wireless power isn't sent using electricity. Electricity is a flow of electrons and requires a conductor. Wireless power is sent using magnetic fields or photons with light.
A coil of wire with an alternating electrical flowing through it will form a expanding and collapsing magnetic field. That magnetic field will induce a flow of electricity in another coil of wire not touching it.