Black Boxes - Fire Hazard?

[Dana Riddle]

Not to mention in China they print out fake UL labels all the time.

Good point. Look closely at UL labels for misspellings - a sign of a fake. Some authentic labels have a hologram and/or color shifting ink.

 

[happyhourhero]

This all stemmed from BRS and their “unbiased” black box video. At that time, I posted this thread which has some anecdotal data if you want to take a peek.

What has Shorted/ Caught Fire in Your Tank?

Please vote in poll for items that have either caught fire or shorted or leaked stray voltage into your tank. If this is happened to you in any way, please write a post explaining what happened and the brand of the equipment that failed.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[lilgrounchuck]

Yea I had one of their ballast start to heat up and smoke. I had bought a few of them a long time ago because they were cheap and I was using them for my breeding tanks. There are lots of threads on them starting on fire and a long one on RC.


For the black boxes what some people may be seeing is not actual fire it is the cheap Chinese electronic components burning up like a resistor smoking. Chinese electronic can be very cheap especially capacitors.

To be fair, just about everything that you own that turns on is chock full of those cheap Chinese electronics components, especially capacitors. China is the largest manufacturer and exporter of electronic components on the planet, and they get used in just about everything. Your “made in USA” or “made in GERMANY” electronics are mainly just assembled in the US or Germany or wherever from cheap imported Chinese parts, then marked up like crazy and sold to the masses.

 

[shred5]

To be fair, just about everything that you own that turns on is chock full of those cheap Chinese electronics components, especially capacitors. China is the largest manufacturer and exporter of electronic components on the planet, and they get used in just about everything. Your “made in USA” or “made in GERMANY” electronics are mainly just assembled in the US or Germany or wherever from cheap imported Chinese parts, then marked up like crazy and sold to the masses.

Yea but there is a difference between a cheap Chinese factory and one from a reputable manufacturer in China as there is with anything made over there. Reputable manufactures have quality control.

I remember a while back one company that was basically selling component that were rejects from another company and didn't meet their QC.

 

[lilgrounchuck]

Yea but there is a difference between a cheap Chinese factory and one from a reputable manufacturer in China as there is with anything made over there. Reputable manufactures have quality control.

I remember a while back one company that was basically selling component that were rejects from another company and didn't meet their QC.

True. Same goes for assembled products. What I was getting at is some people immediately associate anything made in China as being totally inferior, when in reality the stuff they say is superior is actually either also made in China or comprised of Chinese made components and assembled elsewhere.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Yea I had one of their ballast start to heat up and smoke. I had bought a few of them a long time ago because they were cheap and I was using them for my breeding tanks. There are lots of threads on them starting on fire and a long one on RC.


For the black boxes what some people may be seeing is not actual fire it is the cheap Chinese electronic components burning up like a resistor smoking. Chinese electronic can be very cheap especially capacitors.

Another good point. I bought a pack of 1,000 ca

This all stemmed from BRS and their “unbiased” black box video. At that time, I posted this thread which has some anecdotal data if you want to take a peek.

What has Shorted/ Caught Fire in Your Tank?

Please vote in poll for items that have either caught fire or shorted or leaked stray voltage into your tank. If this is happened to you in any way, please write a post explaining what happened and the brand of the equipment that failed.

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks! Looks like power strips are the biggest offender, followed by heaters/pumps, with a few mentions of lights (none of them black boxes, if I read it correctly.) My experiences are about the same - fried power strips, glass heater failure, powerhead leaking current.

 

[alton]

The only issue I saw when I had my Mars Aqua 165w which were not 165w's, was one of the fixtures dropped 50% in PAR levels in a year. And you have the driver and leds in a fixture that is not wet or damp location rated.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Yea but there is a difference between a cheap Chinese factory and one from a reputable manufacturer in China as there is with anything made over there. Reputable manufactures have quality control.

I remember a while back one company that was basically selling component that were rejects from another company and didn't meet their QC.

Agreed. China has QC standards similar to UL and CSA, but they aren't mandatory.
I started a reply earlier and it was sent while I was typing (clumsy fingers!). I'm wondering if some of the reports of 'burning odors' from LED fixtures might be a diode or resistor failure? In either case, there would be loss of light along with some acrid odors. When I was building submersible LEDs for coral experiments in Hawaii, I was using inexpensive Chinese resistors, and had a number of failures.

 

[Proteus Meep]

Now who would have something to gain from spreading and perpetuating rumours of the dangers of purchasing cheap black boxes ? rather than purchasing a more expensive option.. are one of the thoughts that cross my mind when i hear this re-emerge

I ran a black box for many years and it still runs now seven years on with its new owner, i don't think there is any more a fire hazard chance with them than any other electrical item out there

 

[shred5]

Another good point. I bought a pack of 1,000 ca
Thanks! Looks like power strips are the biggest offender, followed by heaters/pumps, with a few mentions of lights (none of them black boxes, if I read it correctly.) My experiences are about the same - fried power strips, glass heater failure, powerhead leaking current.

The Coralife one that has started allot of fires over the years. Some have lost their house and it is still sold today.

https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=5085&ref=dfs

If I remember right they have a sticker on it that says not for aquarium use even though it is sold through a aquarium equipment company and sold for use for aquariums. It is the reason I wont use their products.

 

[Dana Riddle]

The Coralife one that has started allot of fires over the years. Some have lost their house and it is still sold today.

https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=5085&ref=dfs

If I remember right they have a sticker on it that says not for aquarium use even though it is sold through a aquarium equipment company and sold for use for aquariums. It is the reason I wont use their products.

Interesting. Poor products usually weed themselves out of the market but that isn't the case here.

 

[Dana Riddle]

The Coralife one that has started allot of fires over the years. Some have lost their house and it is still sold today.

https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=5085&ref=dfs

If I remember right they have a sticker on it that says not for aquarium use even though it is sold through a aquarium equipment company and sold for use for aquariums. It is the reason I wont use their products.

Good ol' Omer Dersom. He was an attorney by trade, but Energy Savers/Coralife became his bread and butter. Interestingly, he was supportive of my early research efforts. I hear he sold his interest in the company years ago.

 

[DCR]

Not to defend Coralife, but using any power strip around a saltwater aquarium entails some risks that are not related to the power strip. If moisture gets into the sockets and creates corrosion products, it can create a lot of resistance and the heat generated will meltdown the plastic and eventually start a fire. In my early days, I had a couple of power strips start smoking and I suspect that is what causes these house fires. I now always keep any power strips away from high humidity or potential spills and occasionally unplug and wipe away any corrosion products.

I also doubt that there is any aquarium light that is UL listed for wet locations (talking about the entire light - not just a component). I could be wrong, but it is very expensive to test for a low volume product and I think it would be difficult for any of them to pass.

 

[shred5]

Not to defend Coralife, but using any power strip around a saltwater aquarium entails some risks that are not related to the power strip. If moisture gets into the sockets and creates corrosion products, it can create a lot of resistance and the heat generated will meltdown the plastic and eventually start a fire. In my early days, I had a couple of power strips start smoking and I suspect that is what causes these house fires. I now always keep any power strips away from high humidity or potential spills and occasionally unplug and wipe away any corrosion products.

I also doubt that there is any aquarium light that is UL listed for wet locations (talking about the entire light - not just a component). I could be wrong, but it is very expensive to test for a low volume product and I think it would be difficult for any of them to pass.

I do not think they were failing form being wet.
Search there are pretty many threads out there from years ago. You do not see them much anymore because I think most use controllers or something else.
I do hear what you are saying and have seen what you are talking about myself.

 

[Todd Jacobs]

I rember years ago Odessa lights MH / power compact fixtures cathing fire mostly because some had broken or no fans and the MH got to hot have I seen it personally no so i cant say its true 100% and I actually had a customer with a Odessa light MH / t5 that worked perfectly so I believe it when i see it and I hope I never do

 

[Vasilios]

I have 3 black boxes over my 125 reef. Have plenty of growth and no fire has started. I’ve had them for 3-4 yrs now. No issues at all

 

[um02122]

Interesting topic, given my interest in DIY led lights. For some time I've been haunted by this question: are our diy projects safer than a black box? My lamps are certainly not UL tested.

I've got three fixtures, they all work on the account of:
- using only low voltage near the wet side
- generous heatsink and plenty of air flow for cooling
- the only electronics other than the LEDs are the Meanwell LDD drivers and the 24 or 48 to 12V drivers for the fans. And the fans.

Problems so far:
- one 36W fixture works after five like the first day, but it's now covered in salt creep on the outside and in dust on the inside. Had saltwater spillage inside via the fan opening to no ill faith.
- one 96W (24V) fixture got dropped in the tank twice. The fan went on spot, and the Lumileds UV leds too, but the Chinese Crees are still going hard after washing the whole fixture with RO water and a quick drying with the hairdryer.
- the RSM130 in the hood led conversion had the Chinese AC to DC power source blow after about a year for the last three years, with no ill effects to the rest of the installment.

I guess the weak point in a Blackbox is the high voltage going into the box.

 

[Brian_68]

Good point. Look closely at UL labels for misspellings - a sign of a fake. Some authentic labels have a hologram and/or color shifting ink.

I wonder how many people realize their Radions are not safety certified by UL, CSA Intertek etc. as well. Perhaps the black boxes add a label, the radions have none. They have CE but that is an electromagnetic approval, not safety.

 

[mickeysreef <*))))<]

I had a marineland led fixture that filled with evaporated water and caused a small fire in the power strip. this was one of those simple ones with a switch for day/night lights.

 

[Dan Watson]

I also have heard of but not seen these fires, nor do i want to. I have however seen and thrown out these failed fixtures within their first year or two. With a failure rate that high, I would not be surprised to find out they burnt a few houses down. Just happy it wont be my house.