Brooklynella or Marine Velvet?

[johnbr]

Hi,

I couple days ago (3 to be exact) my clowns were acting weird. They didn't want to eat and then I saw some "stains" and what appeared to be a breaking skin and they weren't eating just like playgin with the food. The day before there was NOTHING in their skin and they were completely fine. Well, unfortunately my clowns are bad again. Today they refused to eat and I noticed those stains on their stripes. Took better pics. I'm pretty sure it isn't ich since my two spot golby is perfectly fine. I tried to do a fresh water dip matching the Ph and Temps 5 minutes each fish but, now their seem to be having trouble to breathe. So I came back to the other option, brooklynella or marine velvet, could you please give any, any directions on how I can address this ASAP in order to save their life? Also, could you guys tell me if I'm right about this diagnostic by the pics? Also, I don't dispose of a QT. Should I buy one to treat this?


Thanks

 

[juicemanatx]

With Brook, they would be sliming, noticeably.

At my first glance, I’d rule out brook. Any other fish in the system showing anything odd?

 

[sfin52]

Awful blue white lights will help

 

[johnbr]

Awful blue white lights will help

With Brook, they would be sliming, noticeably.

At my first glance, I’d rule out brook. Any other fish in the system showing anything odd?

I also do see the white thing. At this exact moment they're swimming really fast on the top of the tank. The only other fish that I have is a golby which is doing fine. Regarding the blue light sorry about the pictures.

 

[Sonam]

I can't tell from the photos but can share we are currently treating our fish in a QT we set up in an emergency to address marine velvet.
We lost a lot of fish trying to avoid the hassle of taking the rocks out of the tank and removing ALL the fish. In our situation the fish didn't all get sick at once, it was rhythmic over a few weeks. Every few days another one would get sick and die. We'd have a break for a few days and then another. We tried the metroplex and garlic but eventually realized we had to treat the fish before they showed visible signs of disease or they wouldn't survive.
Good luck with your clowns. Hope you find the right solution for them.

 

[johnbr]

I can't tell from the photos but can share we are currently treating our fish in a QT we set up in an emergency to address marine velvet.
We lost a lot of fish trying to avoid the hassle of taking the rocks out of the tank and removing ALL the fish. In our situation the fish didn't all get sick at once, it was rhythmic over a few weeks. Every few days another one would get sick and die. We'd have a break for a few days and then another. We tried the metroplex and garlic but eventually realized we had to treat the fish before they showed visible signs of disease or they wouldn't survive.
Good luck with your clowns. Hope you find the right solution for them.

thanks for sharing this Sonam.

the funny thing is that I don't ANY I mean, ANY signs of that white thing around their skin. the only thing visible is the stain in their stripes. Another that I've noticed yesterday is that, their poop was white in a form of a worm so I could assume that could be something in their intestines that is bothering them.

thanks again

 

[Maritimer]

With those photos, I can't see either brook or velvet ... but their behavior of swimming at the surface sounds velvety to me. Fish will sometimes swim high - or into the flow of a powerhead or return - in order to try to catch a bit more oxygen.

You're going to need a QT if it is velvet, and you're going to need it pretty quick. Treatment protocols by Humblefish (who's _really_ good at this game) in the threads linked below:

Brook: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/#post-2913287

Velvet: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499399

The good news is that there's a bit of overlap in the initial steps for both protocols, so you could buy a bit of time there.

~Bruce

Edit... Stringy white poop would indicate an internal parasite, which could be treated in the display, using Metroplex and Focus mixed into their food.

They could have any one - or all three - of the illnesses mentioned above. None are mutually exclusive. In any case, you'll want to treat _all_ of the fish in your tank, as all of them can be transmitted.

Clowns also sometimes show "hypermelanization", spots of dark pigment due to being stung by an anemone or coral. That doesn't sound like what's going on here, though.

 

[johnbr]

With those photos, I can't see either brook or velvet ... but their behavior of swimming at the surface sounds velvety to me. Fish will sometimes swim high - or into the flow of a powerhead or return - in order to try to catch a bit more oxygen.

You're going to need a QT if it is velvet, and you're going to need it pretty quick. Treatment protocols by Humblefish (who's _really_ good at this game) in the threads linked below:

Brook: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/#post-2913287

Velvet: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499399

The good news is that there's a bit of overlap in the initial steps for both protocols, so you could buy a bit of time there.

~Bruce

Edit... Stringy white poop would indicate an internal parasite, which could be treated in the display, using Metroplex and Focus mixed into their food.

They could have any one - or all three - of the illnesses mentioned above. None are mutually exclusive. In any case, you'll want to treat _all_ of the fish in your tank, as all of them can be transmitted.

Clowns also sometimes show "hypermelanization", spots of dark pigment due to being stung by an anemone or coral. That doesn't sound like what's going on here, though.

Amazing inputs,

Just came back from my LFS (World Wide Corals) and I spent quite time there talking about my hole situation. They said something that made my think about velvet or brook. Usually those kill the fish in a heartbeat if no treated fast. However, my two clowns showed the same spots 2 days ago in the morning and by the end of the they were gone without me doing anything. Today same thing happened but, this time I saw them swimming fast and close to the top of the tank. They gave me this food called Dr. G's Antiparasitic Caviar to see if the clowns would eat and keep my eye on them until tomorrow before jump into conclusions. Just got home and the ate like CRAZY (without overfeeding). Now they seem to be breathing a little bit slower and they're back to bottom of the tank where usually the spent most o their time.

Jeez this is so confusing.

 

[Sonam]

It is confusing. Have you seen this?

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/285708/

Fish Disease Index - Pictorial Guide

 

[johnbr]

It is confusing. Have you seen this?

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/285708/

Fish Disease Index - Pictorial Guide

Amazing Thread Sonam,

Definitely my clowns are not breathing at that rate. It's still faster than usual tho. I still don't see the white stuff around them. This waiting game is killing me.

 

[johnbr]

Hey Guys,

Just an update on my situation. So, it's been almost a week that I'm dealing with this thing that I don't even know what it is, and now got even more confuse. Yesterday I decided to do the second fresh water dip to all my 3 fish. After the dip I went to my LFS and got everything to setup a QT. I rather go fallow if necessary then see my fish dying. We I got home the goby was dead and the clowns breathing like CRAZY, swimming really fast , each one in one side of the tank. I setup the hole tank using cupramine tested before adding them. Everything ready I decided to wait until today and see how the fish would spend the night without the goby. I just woke up and for my surprise the clowns stopped the fast breathing and the fast swimming. I decided to put the Dr G's food caviar and man these little jerks ate like crazy the hole tank and within 5 minutes everything was gone.

Now I ask you guys, I still can see the "sugar powder" on their bodies but, how on earth they would still be alive this was brook or velvet right? So, could this be ICH and I'm thinking is another thing? I mean, I don't know if I should transfer them to the QT regardless what it is or wait a little bit to see how they react.

Thanks

 

[Maritimer]

I would say yes, transfer _all_ of your remaining fish to the QT and treat for ich / velvet. (Treatment with copper will work for both.) Keep your display tank "fallow" - no fish at all - for 76 days, in order to allow any parasites time to starve out - which they will do with no fish in the system. You can use Metroplex (Metronidazole) as well, to cover Brooklynella.

~Bruce

 

[johnbr]

I would say yes, transfer _all_ of your remaining fish to the QT and treat for ich / velvet. (Treatment with copper will work for both.) Keep your display tank "fallow" - no fish at all - for 76 days, in order to allow any parasites time to starve out - which they will do with no fish in the system. You can use Metroplex (Metronidazole) as well, to cover Brooklynella.

~Bruce

Thanks a lot Bruce,

Is like people say "better safe than sorry"

Will transfer them today.

 

[4FordFamily]

With those photos, I can't see either brook or velvet ... but their behavior of swimming at the surface sounds velvety to me. Fish will sometimes swim high - or into the flow of a powerhead or return - in order to try to catch a bit more oxygen.

You're going to need a QT if it is velvet, and you're going to need it pretty quick. Treatment protocols by Humblefish (who's _really_ good at this game) in the threads linked below:

Brook: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/#post-2913287

Velvet: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499399

The good news is that there's a bit of overlap in the initial steps for both protocols, so you could buy a bit of time there.

~Bruce

Edit... Stringy white poop would indicate an internal parasite, which could be treated in the display, using Metroplex and Focus mixed into their food.

They could have any one - or all three - of the illnesses mentioned above. None are mutually exclusive. In any case, you'll want to treat _all_ of the fish in your tank, as all of them can be transmitted.

Clowns also sometimes show "hypermelanization", spots of dark pigment due to being stung by an anemone or coral. That doesn't sound like what's going on here, though.

Aa always, everything I would have said is contained here! Lol

 

[johnbr]

I would say yes, transfer _all_ of your remaining fish to the QT and treat for ich / velvet. (Treatment with copper will work for both.) Keep your display tank "fallow" - no fish at all - for 76 days, in order to allow any parasites time to starve out - which they will do with no fish in the system. You can use Metroplex (Metronidazole) as well, to cover Brooklynella.

~Bruce

Another question Bruce,

During the fallow period can I add corals and inverts to get more experience and honestly at the same time don't loose interest in the hobby? I mean, spend 2.5 months look at an empty tank is so disappointing.

Thanks

 

[Maritimer]

You can ... but technically, the "fallow clock" should re-start at 76 days from the most recent addition of anything wet. Ich tomonts (cysts) can ride into your tank on a shrimp, hermit, or snail's shell, a coral skeleton or a frag plug. It's not super-common, but if the inverts are kept in a system that also contains fish, it can happen. The longest an ich tomont has ever been observed encysted before releasing its load of theront hunter-killers is 72 days - 76 gives those last few a chance to die of starvation.

~Bruce

 

[johnbr]

You can ... but technically, the "fallow clock" should re-start at 76 days from the most recent addition of anything wet. Ich tomonts (cysts) can ride into your tank on a shrimp, hermit, or snail's shell, a coral skeleton or a frag plug. It's not super-common, but if the inverts are kept in a system that also contains fish, it can happen. The longest an ich tomont has ever been observed encysted before releasing its load of theront hunter-killers is 72 days - 76 gives those last few a chance to die of starvation.

~Bruce

Thanks Bruce,

At this point I only have 4 frags and one cleaner shrimp. Both clowns were transferred to my QT. I've noticed that most QT has bubble pump or something like that, pvc pipes and also white leds.

should I get these to?

thanks

 

[Maritimer]

You should use some kind of sponge filter in QT, for nitrifying bacteria (you can use bacteria in a bottle, like Dr. Tim's or Bio-Spira) to anchor in and reduce ammonia. (Do _not_ use Prime or other chemical ammonia detoxifiers with copper!) I use an Aqua-Clear 110 with two sponges on my 40-B QT. PVC pipes and fittings give fish a place to hide and feel secure, but don't absorb medications, so they're pretty important. Lighting can be anything you want, even ambient / room lighting, so long as you can observe the fish.

~Bruce

 

[johnbr]

You should use some kind of sponge filter in QT, for nitrifying bacteria (you can use bacteria in a bottle, like Dr. Tim's or Bio-Spira) to anchor in and reduce ammonia. (Do _not_ use Prime or other chemical ammonia detoxifiers with copper!) I use an Aqua-Clear 110 with two sponges on my 40-B QT. PVC pipes and fittings give fish a place to hide and feel secure, but don't absorb medications, so they're pretty important. Lighting can be anything you want, even ambient / room lighting, so long as you can observe the fish.

~Bruce

thanks again bruce,

I've just got to pipes, bubbler stone, white led fixture. Also, I just got a brand new slide for my Seneye Reef which will be monitoring all the ph and ammonia in real time. Regarding sponge, the pump I got has one inside already. Is that what you saying?

Here's a pic of the tank so far.

 

[Maritimer]

You look to be in decent shape to me ... the filter isn't gigantic, but two small ocellaris clowns don't make for a gigantic bioload, so I think you're good there.

I would add an ammonia alert badge similar to the pH one you've got. Liquid ammonia tests won't work properly in the presence of copper, but the badge should.

~Bruce