Chloroquine Phosphate + General Cure

[Elgringodiablo]

I'm in the midst of QTing my second Bandit Angel (lost the first to gram negative bacterial infection). He's been in CP for about 8 days now. Seems basically fine, but definitely has some internal parasites/infection. Been swimming on his side a bit and had big time white stringy waste this morning (maybe like 3 inch long string).

I have seen anecdotal reports that Chloroquine is fine with powdered Praziquantel and likely fine with Metrodiazonal as well. Just wondering if I am safe to dose the QT with General Cure while treating CP. I could also try going the Metro+Focus food route, but I am not 100% confident that he will eat it.

I've got Nitrofuracin Green if it starts looking like a bacterial infection. But I plan to hold off and see if getting rid of the internal parasites helps right the ship.

Any particular concerns with combining CP and GC?

 

[blkhwkz]

I'm in the midst of QTing my second Bandit Angel (lost the first to gram negative bacterial infection). He's been in CP for about 8 days now. Seems basically fine, but definitely has some internal parasites/infection. Been swimming on his side a bit and had big time white stringy waste this morning (maybe like 3 inch long string).

I have seen anecdotal reports that Chloroquine is fine with powdered Praziquantel and likely fine with Metrodiazonal as well. Just wondering if I am safe to dose the QT with General Cure while treating CP. I could also try going the Metro+Focus food route, but I am not 100% confident that he will eat it.

I've got Nitrofuracin Green if it starts looking like a bacterial infection. But I plan to hold off and see if getting rid of the internal parasites helps right the ship.

Any particular concerns with combining CP and GC?

I have run CP and GC together multiple times no issues. Ran it on a fairy wrasse a few months back and have done it on several other fish in the last 2 years.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

So... Bandit is swimming on his side. Doesn’t seem to have much appetite.

I added some a General Cure and some epsom salt, in case it is an internal parasite and/or bowel blockage.

After losing my first one to a bacterial infection I am super paranoid and considering moving to a separate QT with nitrofuracin green.


@Humblefish thoughts?

 

[Humblefish]

@Elgringodiablo It doesn't look good. If he has a bad case of internal parasites/intestinal worms, then he really needs some prazi + metro delivered directly into the gut.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

@Elgringodiablo It doesn't look good. If he has a bad case of internal parasites/intestinal worms, then he really needs some prazi + metro delivered directly into the gut.

So... forgo the NFG and see if I can get him to eat some metro+prazi soaked mysis? Fish was looking pretty good until yesterday. He sure looked fat for having internal parasites. Never ate a ton, which I figured was due to CP.

Only other explanations I can think of are swim bladder or gram negative infection. Doubt it’s swim bladder, as I got him from an experienced diver and I see no other signs of bacterial infection.

Thanks!!

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Looks a little better today, still has stringy white poo and doesn't seem to be eating. I am going to keep trying to feed metro + prazi. If I can't save this guy, I won't be buying another for a very long time. Can't afford to keep losing expensive fish like this.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

So, two days later, he is still swimming on his side. Have him in CP (day 10) + General Cure bath (day 3, single dose with 1/4 dose added after doing 25% WC last night). Tried feeding mysis soaked in focus and general cure, but doesn't seem to be eating. Still looks pretty fat and no red marks or tattered fins. Breathing appears a bit labored, but not rapid, no new white stringy poo since last night.

Really not sure if I should transfer him to the tank I have setup for NFG, or just keep waiting it out. Also, starting to wonder if it's a swim bladder issue, I don't see any obvious bulge/bubble, but the inability to stay upright has me suspecting it as a possibility.

@Humblefish @melypr1985 any advice?

 

[Humblefish]

When he swims, does the nose point up or down?

 

[Elgringodiablo]

When he swims, does the nose point up or down?

Nose slightly up. Not completely swimming on his side, but maybe a 15-20 degree angle vs upright. Definitely not upside down, like I have seen in fish that are clearly experience swim bladder issues.

 

[Humblefish]

Nose slightly up. Not completely swimming on his side, but maybe a 15-20 degree angle vs upright. Definitely not upside down, like I have seen in fish that are clearly experience swim bladder issues.

Nose up sounds more like a a spinal injury. But that is more common with wrasses.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Nose up sounds more like a a spinal injury. But that is more common with wrasses.

I really doubt that it's a spinal injury, I can't think of anything in my QT he could have hit hard enough to have that happen. Even the lid would have just come off and I haven't witnessed this fish flip out and bang into things the way a scared wrasse can. He isn't really swimming around nose up or down.

Here is a new video, that hopefully illustrates better:
At the end, when I change the camera angle, you get a better idea of his positioning vs the bottom of the tank.

I am pretty certain that it's intestinal parasites (due to the white stringy poo), which may explain why he is swimming on his side or mostly on his side, perhaps some bloat or infection is affecting his swim bladder. As far as I am aware, the diver brought them up over an extended period, as he likely had to with his rebreather. I don't think he was pinning them, so I am pretty sure it's not a swim bladder issue on it's own, more likely a side effect of internal parasites.

I'm just wondering how long I should wait it out with just General Cure bath (as he doesn't seem to want to eat), before I switch to NFG or other antibiotics. Kind of a situation where I am uncertain if the change will do more harm than good.

 

[Humblefish]

Being you know he has intestinal parasites, he might also have an internal infection to go along with it. Whether it's in the swim bladder area or elsewhere.

Using Focus helps with internal infections, but sometimes you need a proper ABX. I prefer Neomycin (via food soaking) because it is not readily absorbed in the intestinal tract. So it lasts longer internally when added to food.

More info on Neomycin: http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html#neomycin

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Being you know he has intestinal parasites, he might also have an internal infection to go along with it. Whether it's in the swim bladder area or elsewhere.

Using Focus helps with internal infections, but sometimes you need a proper ABX. I prefer Neomycin (via food soaking) because it is not readily absorbed in the intestinal tract. So it lasts longer internally when added to food.

More info on Neomycin: http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html#neomycin

Thanks!

As it stands, he is in CP + General Cure (GC has likely worn off since it was dosed 3 days ago). The fish isn't eating or at least not while I am present. Should I remove the CP before adding antibiotics? Antibiotics as a bath worth trying?

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks!

As it stands, he is in CP + General Cure (GC has likely worn off since it was dosed 3 days ago). The fish isn't eating or at least not while I am present. Should I remove the CP before adding antibiotics? Antibiotics as a bath worth trying?

How long has be been in CP thus far?

 

[Elgringodiablo]

10 days in CP, no signs of anything other than the gut and swimming issues.

 

[Humblefish]

10 days in CP, no signs of anything other than the gut and swimming issues.

Move to a new QT and treat with Neomycin in there.

10 days is long enough CP/copper treatment, if you can move the specimen to a completely different QT at least 10 feet away.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Think NFG would be a bad idea? I’ve already got an empty QT that I dosed with it in anticipation of the same gram negative issue I had last time.

 

[Humblefish]

Think NFG would be a bad idea? I’ve already got an empty QT that I dosed with it in anticipation of the same gram negative issue I had last time.

NFG might help with this, but Neomycin would be better if it is, in fact, an internal infection.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

NFG might help with this, but Neomycin would be better if it is, in fact, an internal infection.

I'll move him over the the NFG tank for now, while I try to get my hands on some neomycin.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Swimming upright again in the NFG tank. Definitely not out of the woods, but small victories. Real test will be getting him eating again.