Comments please on my return plumbing setup

CaCrimson · Feb 11, 2013

I am about to gather the parts for my return plumbing and wanted to get any comments from you experienced reefers out there if this setup looks ok?

This is just my return plumbing and in the sump I have left out my drains, skimmer, auto top off, filter sock holder, heaters and bio pellet reactor. In the cabinet, I left out things like the dosing pump, ATO.

Some specifics:

Display Tank: 58 gallon rimless (apprx. 36 L x 18 W x 24 H)
Internal Herbie overflow to sump in cabinet below
(One return pipe to the tank; may split the return into two outlets later)
Stand: 36 L x 18 W x 28 H
Sump: 23 gallon rimless 1/4" glass (apprx. 24 L x 14 W x 16 H)
Pump: Eheim 1262
Running an Emporer Aquatics 02218 18-watt UV-C tee'd off the return with gate valve and returned back to the sump
Running a BRS Carbon Reactor tee'd off the return with ball valve (ball valve missing from sketch below)

I am looking for comments on how I have the return pump, UV-C, carbon reactor plumbed to the return line. Just a warning, things may no be to scale and it looks a little choppy with all the cutting and pasting. Thank you!

CaCrimson · Feb 12, 2013

33 views and no comments? Anyone with experience doing this stuff??? Please!!! Thanks.

Ian · Feb 12, 2013

looks fine to me... not much need for a UV sterilizer but that's just my opinion

CaCrimson · Feb 12, 2013

Thanks Ian. I appreciate your opinion and value your experience. I have been debating back and forth whether to go with the UV. I have read so many opinions on UV my head is spinning =)

Thanks for reaching out to me. I am already looking at some of your livestock!

Ian said:
looks fine to me... not much need for a UV sterilizer but that's just my opinion

scamp · Feb 12, 2013

you should put some sort of check valve in you return line so that water does not siphon back to the sump, also a valve to adjust water flow to your reactor. i used a separate pump and tied my uv light and reactor to it so i can slow down the water flow thru both for max. exposure, and i can shut down the reactor and uv light for maintenance without shutting down the main filter or having to readjust the flow. i also like all the pipework!!!!

scamp · Feb 12, 2013

yeah that ball valve thats missing from the sketch thats the one you should use on your reactor! ;}

CaCrimson · Feb 12, 2013

scamp said:
you should put some sort of check valve in you return line so that water does not siphon back to the sump, also a valve to adjust water flow to your reactor. i used a separate pump and tied my uv light and reactor to it so i can slow down the water flow thru both for max. exposure, and i can shut down the reactor and uv light for maintenance without shutting down the main filter or having to readjust the flow. i also like all the pipework!!!!

Thanks for the feedback. I debated back and forth about the check valve. In fact, I had a few sketches with a check valve. I have just read so many problems with check valves that I was just going to keep my return high enough in the tank, and maybe drill it, that if it does siphon back to the sump, it wouldn't be that much water. I was trying to keep the plumbing as simple as possible so that there is less to go wrong. I've been reading that if something can go wrong it usually will, and when you are not home. I wasn't planning on the check valve to be reliable and that is why i have left one out in the sketch above. I did leave space though so if i find i need one, I can easily add it later. Thanks again for the advice and catching that.

I also thought about using two pumps but my sump and cabinet are so small. I was hoping to get away with one pump to do all 3 jobs, which is why I am going with the Eheim 1262. I like the idea of 2 pumps, especially for redundancy, I am just afraid I don't have the space below to accommodate it... Something to think about though, thanks :wink:

scamp · Feb 12, 2013

my original set-up i did the same thing with running a higher return line and putting a hole as a siphon break, the problem i had was it sounded like someone peeing in a bucket all the time. our tank is in our living room so that had to change. i installed the check valve in the line so that i can remove it to clean and test it every so often and replace if need be.been running it fer 4yrs now with no problems. good luck with your build and cant wait to see some pics of your final assembly.

CaCrimson · Feb 12, 2013

scamp said:
my original set-up i did the same thing with running a higher return line and putting a hole as a siphon break, the problem i had was it sounded like someone peeing in a bucket all the time. our tank is in our living room so that had to change. i installed the check valve in the line so that i can remove it to clean and test it every so often and replace if need be.been running it fer 4yrs now with no problems. good luck with your build and cant wait to see some pics of your final assembly.

Thanks for the warning. I think I am going to add that check valve back in, I think it was a George Fisher Wye... I will post my build thread on here once u get it together. Thanks again!!!

Eggs · Feb 12, 2013

scamp said:
my original set-up i did the same thing with running a higher return line and putting a hole as a siphon break, the problem i had was it sounded like someone peeing in a bucket all the time...

Did you have the siphon break hole just below the water surface?

I would be leary about a check-valve. Wouldn't take much debris getting lodged in there to cause a failure.

scamp · Feb 12, 2013

not really worried about debris getting lodged in the check valve, although the potential is there for it to happen same as if the hole is covered by algea or a snail. i combat this by keeping my return pump filter clean and removing and cleaning the return pipe and valve once a month. i did not put the hole below the water line because of the risk of it becoming clooged, but here again regular cleaning may prevent this. my opinion is there is less chance of the valve failing then our siphon break hole is to clog.

CaCrimson · Feb 12, 2013

Eggs said:
Did you have the siphon break hole just below the water surface?

I would be leary about a check-valve. Wouldn't take much debris getting lodged in there to cause a failure.

OK, now I am totally confused. Check valve or no check valve!?! :decision:

Ian · Feb 12, 2013

As long as there's enough room in the sump incase of back flow, you don't need one.

I made my sump tall enough that the tank could back syphon and the sump wouldn't over flow

CaCrimson · Feb 12, 2013

Ian said:
As long as there's enough room in the sump incase of back flow, you don't need one.

I made my sump tall enough that the tank could back syphon and the sump wouldn't over flow

Thank you! I definitely designed the sump large enough to hold any backflow. I actually designed it larger than I had originally planned just to have an extra buffer.

I know you aren't sure the UV is needed, but do you (or anyone else reading) know if I go with the UV-C is OK to return the UV-C discharge to the sump? I know a lot of people discharge back to the display tank, but I only have one return bulkhead. What do people running UV-C do in this case?

Thanks!!!

Kbra · Feb 12, 2013

Use the clear swing check valves. They make them double union too so you can clean or replace if needed. Marine Depot has them. You will regret not having one. Guaranteed.

And use a UV

CaCrimson · Feb 12, 2013

Thank you Kbra. I was looking at the double union type because I can easily switch it out when needed. The George Fischer Wye look like they take more room in the cabinet...

I asked earlier but do you or anyone else know about discharging the UV-C back to the sump? If it's not OK, I need to rework the plumbing to figure out how to combine it back with the return to the display tank.

Kbra · Feb 12, 2013

My UV goes back to the sump. Just orient the check valve vertical so gravity helps it seat closed and you will likely never have an issue.

CaCrimson · Feb 12, 2013

Thanks.

It looks like I found my answer too. I found some people return the UV discharge to the sump return chamber and some to the sump skimmer chamber, both with different reasoning. However, I also read that the best way is to tee the discharge back into the return, as shown in a graphic below, from Emperor Aquatics. What I read is that this will provide more water with UV filtration rather than just limiting the UV filtration to the water that goes through the sump. If one limits the UV filtration to the water in the sump, it will take longer for all of the system water to be treated every 24-hours. In other words, by discharging the UV water to the DT, a higher percentage of total water volume will go through the UV in the given time period. Hope I paraphrased clearly??? Probably not =)

First below is the design from Emperor Aquatics.

Second, is how I reworked my plumbing to replicate their design.

Does anyone have any comments on how I reworked the plumbing, especially to tee the UV discharge back into the return before the check valve?

I also added a check valve. It is a True Union 5 PSI cracking pressure Asahi Check Valve with a ball mechanism. Does anyone know if 5 PSI cracking pressure is too high for this situation? Not too get too picky but I didn't want a white check valve with all of this schedule 80 plumbing. Almost all of the other plumbing is black and grey too!!! Wanted to keep it black and grey.

Kbra · Feb 13, 2013

Same dif. Either way you want to be able to control the amount of flow through the uv because its not how much you pass through but how much exposure time the water has in the uv. More time means more sterilizing power. By letting it return to the sump you can easily see and measure your flow rate.