Coralline no show

[Nano sapiens]

This is an oversimplification though - 'nutrients' (phosphate and nitrate) is really a proxy measurement for latent levels of both food and waste byproducts - and that means drastically different things in a tank vs in nature.

Yes, of course, but it's what the typical reef keeper can measure (hence the 'NO3 and PO4' nutrient reference).

In the wild - .001 ppm phosphate is still an inexhaustible supply of phosphate - and a coral is constantly being bathed in food particles - something we basically can't do without turning our tanks into cesspools. Whereas in a tank - you could have .001ppm phosphate because you feed a ton and export a ton and flux is high - and corals are fine - or you could have .001 and you feed less and export less and your corals are starving.

Yes, good info for the beginning aquarists in this thread to contemplate.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Lets end this "LED's can't grow coralline algae" myth once and for all.

Take a look at Nathan Willard's tank lighted with only kessils: absolutely covered with coralline!

switching from two part to Kalkwasser made coralline start to really take off in my tank. I'd either start dosing kalk, running a CO2 scrubber or otherwise raising pH as close to 8.3 as you can.

To be clear, no one is saying that 'LEDs can't grow CCA'. What has been stated is that when many aquarists switched from MHs and/or T5s to LEDs they often noticed a marked reduction, or cessation, in CCA growth. It has been suggested that the limited spectrum of those early LED arrays may have been the issue and this may be the case, but I am unaware of any studies and/or proof that 'blue and cool white only' LEDs can reduce or stop CCA growth.

But even today, there are a number of aquarists that have difficulty growing CCA under current LED arrays. You might think that some reefers also had this problem back then under other lighting sources, but to my recollection that was rarely the case (everybody I knew back then cursed CCA for growing too fast).

I'll give you that one can argue that there are other reasons why some of today's reef keepers using modern LED arrays are have difficulties growing CCA, some of which just happen to roughly coincide with the widespread adoption of LED lighting (better control and lower levels of nutrients, for example).

Would be interesting to have an LED user that is having difficulties with CCA growth switch back to MH or T5s and see what effect that might have on CCA growth.

 

[GillMeister]

Lets end this "LED's can't grow coralline algae" myth once and for all.

Take a look at Nathan Willard's tank lighted with only kessils: absolutely covered with coralline!

switching from two part to Kalkwasser made coralline start to really take off in my tank. I'd either start dosing kalk, running a CO2 scrubber or otherwise raising pH as close to 8.3 as you can.

I have started running a CO2 scrubber since Tuesday and my pH is trending in the right direction. Maybe a switch to Kalkwasser is on the list of remedies too.

 

[ReefLab]

To be clear, no one is saying that 'LEDs can't grow CCA'. What has been stated is that when many aquarists switched from MHs and/or T5s to LEDs they often noticed a marked reduction, or cessation, in CCA growth. It has been pointed out that the limited spectrum of these early LED arrays may have been the reason.

But even today, there are aquarists that have difficulty growing CCA under current LED arrays. You might think that some reefers also had this problem back then under other lighting sources, but to my recollection that was rarely the case (everybody I knew back then cursed CCA for growing too fast).

I'll give you that one can argue that there are other reasons why some of today's reef keepers using modern LED arrays are have difficulties growing CCA, some of which just happen to roughly coincide with the widespread adoption of LED lighting (better control and lower levels of nutrients, for example).

Would be interesting to have an LED user that is having difficulties with CCA growth switch back to MH or T5s and see what effect that might have on CCA growth.

That makes sense. I think someone else on this thread mentioned something that I also agree with: until somewhat recently, spectrum and spread of LEDs did not come as close to T5/MH as they do today.

LEDs now are in many ways equal and in some ways superior to T5/MH.

Unless someone is using older LED's or a "black box" option, I don't think that lack of CCA should be attributed to the light itself. Maybe DLI, PAR, spread issues but unlikely that it is spectrum.

 

[92Miata]

To be clear, no one is saying that 'LEDs can't grow CCA'. What has been stated is that when many aquarists switched from MHs and/or T5s to LEDs they often noticed a marked reduction, or cessation, in CCA growth. It has been pointed out that the limited spectrum of these early LED arrays may have been the reason.

But even today, there are aquarists that have difficulty growing CCA under current LED arrays. You might think that some reefers also had this problem back then under other lighting sources, but to my recollection that was rarely the case (everybody I knew back then cursed CCA for growing too fast).

I'll give you that one can argue that there are other reasons why some of today's reef keepers using modern LED arrays are have difficulties growing CCA, some of which just happen to roughly coincide with the widespread adoption of LED lighting (better control and lower levels of nutrients, for example).

Would be interesting to have an LED user that is having difficulties with CCA growth switch back to MH or T5s and see what effect that might have on CCA growth.

There are aquarists of every type who do every thing that have trouble growing CCA.

Largely because newbies get told all sorts of dumb stuff like "you don't need to keep track of alkalinity until you get stony corals". Or "Keep your lights off for 4 months". Or "you've got algae - clearly your nutrients are too high - dose lots of carbon even though your test kits all read 0, your corals look great, and the algae in question is able to fix nitrogen".

Unless there's some evidence that it's happening more in LED tanks than other tanks- this isn't helpful. Remember - the vast majority of new tanks are started with LEDs at this point. Don't do newbies a disservice by telling them they need new lights. Unless you're running some sort of completely disfunctional DIY solution, or some soft of hugely underpowered freshwater setup - its not the LEDs. The stuff is just not that particular about light.

Back when T5s first came out - people said they couldn't grow everything from coraline to LPS to SPS. It took probably 5 years before every SPS tank that had T5s and some sort of problem stopped getting "You need to upgrade your lights". Meanwhile, people were growing SPS under power compact fluorescents.

 

[j.falk]

I've found that when I recently added sand to my tank, my coralline has stopped growing / is dying off. When I was barebottom my coralline grew everywhere and fast. I don't understand what is in the sand that is causing it but this is the second tank that I have experienced this issue.

 

[Nano sapiens]

There are aquarists of every type who do every thing that have trouble growing CCA.

Largely because newbies get told all sorts of dumb stuff like "you don't need to keep track of alkalinity until you get stony corals". Or "Keep your lights off for 4 months". Or "you've got algae - clearly your nutrients are too high - dose lots of carbon even though your test kits all read 0, your corals look great, and the algae in question is able to fix nitrogen".

Unless there's some evidence that it's happening more in LED tanks than other tanks- this isn't helpful. Remember - the vast majority of new tanks are started with LEDs at this point. Don't do newbies a disservice by telling them they need new lights. Unless you're running some sort of completely disfunctional DIY solution, or some soft of hugely underpowered freshwater setup - its not the LEDs. The stuff is just not that particular about light.

Back when T5s first came out - people said they couldn't grow everything from coraline to LPS to SPS. It took probably 5 years before every SPS tank that had T5s and some sort of problem stopped getting "You need to upgrade your lights". Meanwhile, people were growing SPS under power compact fluorescents.

Once again, with emphasis, no one is saying that modern LEDs can't grow coralline algae as there are many systems out there do it just fine. All I'm saying is that some people with LEDs today have difficulty growing CCA. Are some modern LED arrays better at growing CCA than others? I honestly don't know that answer. Are all the current reefer's issues with CCA due to something other than the particular array they are using? Possibly, but I don't know that either. Obviously, if reefer A is using a Radion G5 (for example) at a particular setting and CCA is growing well, then that array is capable of growing CCA.

My intention here in this thread was to simply stimulate the newer reefers to think and consider logically all variables concerning CCA care and growth while providing some interesting factual and historic background. I'll bow out of this now as I can see that this is starting to resemble the old 'MH vs T5 vs LED' debates, which is not helpful and was not my intention.

 

[Doctorgori]

just talking; I'm sure every has notice algae sorta covers surfaces in stages, as if the biofilm has to be "prepped" for certain algaes/...
notice it seems brown diatoms are first, then the dusty green, then the fluffy GHA like stuff ... finally the dark green "good" type or purple cca ...also noticed cca as its called likes plastic or so it seems...

 

[schuby]

I started my tank at the beginning of last year with dead rock and a bottle of bacteria. Fish soon after (already quarantined by me before cycle started). Coralline didn't grow well for the first 6-8 months (it was seeded with ARC coralline about 3 months in).

What I think made my coralline take off is maturing of the tank, not starving it of phosphate and nitrate, and fixing a low potassium level. I started testing magnesium and potassium once a month after my first ICP test that showed low potassium.

 

[Everything Aquatics]

My last reef tank started growing coralline immediately and aggressively. And I wasn't exactly attentive with that system. I rarely checked my water, wasn't religious about water changes, and the tank wasn't very clean.

My new system has been running since June and I only have a few spots of coralline on the rock I used to seed the tank. Those spots aren't growing or spreading. What gives? Am I being impatient?

Mine just started growing after 6 months

 

[92Miata]

If you don't want to get into an argument over a salacious claim, stop making the claim.

'Spurring discussion' over nonsense false claims isn't helping anyone.

 

[Jeffcb]

Just ordered Purple and Pink from Algae Barn. Just spoke with them to find if its dated. It is and ships every Tuesday the day they get it. Its just Fairy Dust......... If its fresh and out of another tank with in the week I think it will work. Purple has always been less prolific than pink for me. idk I think it is important factor of "live rock" we will see

 

[Pistondog]

My alkalinity has been running high and my pH fluctuates, but every other parameter has been solid.

75g up since april 2018. Ph 8.2. to 8.4, alk 7.5 to 8.5, kessil ap700
I seeded with the bottle.

 

[GillMeister]

75g up since april 2018. Ph 8.2. to 8.4, alk 7.5 to 8.5, kessil ap700
I seeded with the bottle.

What bottle?

 

[Pistondog]

What bottle?

Purple Helix Coralline Algae in a Bottle + Nitrifying Bacteria & Live Spores

ARC Reef's Purple Helix Coralline Algae in a bottle contains 7 different species of live algae spores. Seed your aquarium with epiphytic purple coralline.

arcreef.com

 

[Hans-Werner]

Give them more nutrients, especially phosphate.

And this sounds really odd, but my experience: Reef tanks with LED need much more phosphate, 0.1 (I did not drop a "0") ppm is rather the minumum than the maximum. Maybe give it a try. And forget about nitrate.

The reason for the phosphate hunger of LED tanks is 450 nm blue light, the part of the spectrum we always lost quickly with HQI and T5. Times have changed.

 

[GillMeister]

Give them more nutrients, especially phosphate.

And this sounds really odd, but my experience: Reef tanks with LED need much more phosphate, 0.1 (I did not drop a "0") ppm is rather the minumum than the maximum. Maybe give it a try. And forget about nitrate.

The reason for the phosphate hunger of LED tanks is 450 nm blue light, the part of the spectrum we always lost quickly with HQI and T5. Times have changed.

I might take that advice and see what results i get. It's an interesting theory. Are there any studies, other than your experience, to support it?

 

[G Santana]

Patience is key lol

 

[j.falk]

I've found that when I recently added sand to my tank, my coralline has stopped growing / is dying off. When I was barebottom my coralline grew everywhere and fast. I don't understand what is in the sand that is causing it but this is the second tank that I have experienced this issue.

I was wrong. It wasn't the sand that caused the die off. It was turning the filter off during feeding that caused my nitrates/phosphates to decline. I used to leave it on while feeding and my corals and coralline would grow like crazy. Once I started turning it off, that was the moment that things started dying off afterwards. I didn't realize it until I lost 4 big snails in a row...that made me reconsider what I had done wrong.

 

[schuby]

I was wrong. It wasn't the sand that caused the die off. It was turning the filter off during feeding that caused my nitrates/phosphates to decline. I used to leave it on while feeding and my corals and coralline would grow like crazy. Once I started turning it off, that was the moment that things started dying off afterwards. I didn't realize it until I lost 4 big snails in a row...that made me reconsider what I had done wrong.

Can you expand on which filter you turned off that you feel caused your phosphate and nitrate to lower, subsequently causing things in your tank to die? What duration did you start keeping it off?