Corraline algae and ozone

[Cory]

have you noticed an increased growth in corraline algae when you started using ozone?

Randy, I noticed in your part 3 article on ozone that you showed before and after pics of how much clearer the water was with a piece of white plastic with numbers on it, but what I found interesting was how much corraline algae growth you got!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I assume you mean the picture linked below. While I don't really keep track of corralline growth, I've not noticed any particular link to ozone use.

In the picture, the white plastic was not left in the tank, so it is possible that the plastic is moved a bit to the right or left and the apparent change in coralline in the background was not actually growth, but just moving to a section where the coralline was more complete.

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 3: Changes in a Reef Aquarium upon Initiating Ozone by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

 

[Cory]

Yes that's exactly what I was referring to. That's too bad it could be just moved over. It's just I've heard people say corraline doesn't like organics. I thought that would be a good example.

Do you still reccomend ozone? I've got an Apex coming in the mail and would like to get an orp probe and control ozone with it. It seems in the article you don't control the ozone based on orp. True? I'm wondering what's a safe point to start at using orp as a shut off?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes that's exactly what I was referring to. That's too bad it could be just moved over. It's just I've heard people say corraline doesn't like organics. I thought that would be a good example.

Do you still reccomend ozone? I've got an Apex coming in the mail and would like to get an orp probe and control ozone with it. It seems in the article you don't control the ozone based on orp. True? I'm wondering what's a safe point to start at using orp as a shut off?

No, I don't use it much any more. About once every couple of months I run a trickle of O3 into my skimmer for a bit to remove yellowing, but I am not nearly as aggressive as I was in the past.

When I was using it, the ORP never got too high even running it 24/7, so there was no need to actually control it in my case. I'd base the ORP shut off on the starting ORP before ozone. IMO, the rise is more important than the actual value, since it reflects the amount of ozone reacting with the water.

 

[Cory]

It sounds pretty useless then unless you want to clear the water even more than tradition activated carbon. Why did you stop with it? Family safety?

Can you verify that ozone could oxidize ammonia?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes, ozone can oxidize ammonia to nitrate.

i stopped out of concern over HLLE in some fish (tangs).

Both GAC and ozone have been implicated,a nd I switched to acid washed GAC (ROX) and dropped the ozone. I have a different tang now, but it shows no issues at all.

 

[Cory]

Acid washed carbon is supposed to be better in HLLE? Did your old tang get HLLE when you started using ozone and carbon and that's why you stopped or it was just a precaution?

I wonder if bromine to bromide conversion with ozone (I think it's that) causes HLLE in tangs. It would be easy to find out if that's true by dosing it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Acid washed carbon is supposed to be better in HLLE? Did your old tang get HLLE when you started using ozone and carbon and that's why you stopped or it was just a precaution?

I wonder if bromine to bromide conversion with ozone (I think it's that) causes HLLE in tangs. It would be easy to find out if that's true by dosing it.

I don't recall exactly when it started it was so long ago.

Bromide to hypobromate is one concern, but I was treating the ozonized water aggressively with GAC, so I doubt any oxidized products like those get into the tank.

I can't be sure either was an issue, but something was.

 

[Cory]

Are they saying here that UVR causes corraline algae to be stunted in growth?

"crustose coralline;growth rate;UV radiation
SUMMARY
The effects of UV radiation (UVR) on growth of sporelings of Melobesia membranacea (Esper) Lamouroux, Lithophyllum incrustans Philippi and Mesophyllum lichenoides (Ellis) Lemoine, were investigated by culturing the algae under different doses of photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) only and PAR + UVR. Under natural conditions, the light fields occurring in the habitats of the three species differ substantially. Whereas M. lichenoides and L. incrustans inhabit sun-exposed places in the eulittoral and upper part of the sublittoral, M. membranacea grows as an epiphyte in shady crevices in the eulittoral, where irradiance is < 10% of that in sun-exposed places. The relative growth rate (RGR) of sporelings of these non-geniculate coralline algae was affected by the UVR. The extent of harmful UVR effects on growth rate showed a similar increase as a function of the logarithm of the dose in the three species, inferred by a similar slope in all the linear regressions for a given action spectrum. The inhibition of growth under the PAR + UVR showed similar features in the two species of non-geniculate coralline species from sun-exposed places, that is, similar intercepts and slopes in the linear regressions of RGR as a function of the logarithm of the biologically effective dose."



Influence of UV radiation on growth of sporelings of three non-geniculate coralline red algae from Southern Iberian Peninsula - Ba[]ares - 2006 - Phycological Research - Wiley Online Library

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes, that's what it sounds like.

FWIW, some species of coralline don't like bright light at all.

 

[Cory]

Ah ok thanks. Well my led unit doesn't have any UVR, so that's good. Is there some sort of similarity in the chemistries of ozone and uv?

Why wouldnt a photosythetic organism like bright light? It sounds more like a superstition. Photo inhibition?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ah ok thanks. Well my led unit doesn't have any UVR, so that's good. Is there some sort of similarity in the chemistries of ozone and uv?

Why wouldnt a photosythetic organism like bright light? It sounds more like a superstition. Photo inhibition?

It's more than superstition.

UV has a variety of different wavelengths, but is potentially absorbed by organic molecules, including DNA, that may be prone to breaking apart after absorbing the UV. That's how a UV sterilizer works: damaging DNA.

 

[aslmx]

Is their any safe way to keep coralline from growing. I really hate it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Not really. Bright light often inhibits it, as will elevated phosphate and low alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium, and possibly high organics. Not the usual recipe for success with hard corals, however.

 

[Cory]

I don't recall exactly when it started it was so long ago.

Bromide to hypobromate is one concern, but I was treating the ozonized water aggressively with GAC, so I doubt any oxidized products like those get into the tank.

I can't be sure either was an issue, but something was.

So your tang got HLLE or did you just stop ozone just in case it happened? I'm Assuming that hypo bromide and that other are removed by gac?

I read you saying that premature deaths can happen with as little as .08ppm of ozone gas in the house. I once went to a local saltwater store in my old home town Winnipeg and his place reeked of ozone. It smelled nice however, but I wonder what kind of damage he was doing to himself. That was the famous SWC skimmer guy a while back, but now he doesn't have his shop there last I went, probably just moved to a smaller place. He once said his electric bill for the store was 1100$ a month! Crazy, but not sure I believe it haha.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My hippo had significant facial erosion. My yellow tang got an issue that some have related to HLLE with is that the tissue between the dorsal fin spikes eroded more and more, even though it was otherwise fat and healthy and bright yellow.

I don't have a hippo, but my yellow tang that I currently have (a different one) has no such issues.

As I said, I am not certain the GAC (Marineland Black Diamond) or the ozone or both together contributed, but it has been suggested by others to be the case for some tanks, and it may have been the case for me.

When using ozone, I was very careful to treat both the exiting air and the water, and the air never smelled after GAC treatment.

 

[Cory]

There is a public aquarium in a casino in my old town. They had lots of hippo tangs with HLLE and yellow tangs too with it. Their water was crystal clear 6 feet back. I'm sure they used ozone.

Did your old tangs develops this when you started ozone?

I couldn't find any scientific papers about corraline algae and ozone, but lots about UVR. Most die or bleach when intense light is on them. Othersz surivive in areas with intense light only when they are hiding under something like macroalgae, when the macroalgae is removed they bleach and die. Another study I found said that corraline algae can inhibit the growth of sporelings of ulva.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I can't recall when it started, but since I thought it a likely explanation at the time, I expect I at least first noticed it after I was using GAC and ozone.

Not many folks will study coralline and ozone since it doesn't happen much naturally, while UV does hit coralline every time the tide goes out.

 

[Cory]

Hmm. I've been trying to figure out this corraline! Strontium addition didn't increase the growth on my live rock, but the Salifert test kit for strontium sucks anyway- not precise. So I've stopped that.

One scientific paper I read said that you can basically tell how deep the water is based on the abundance of corraline algae. Something tells me spectrum is important! Deep in the water it gets more blue, and less red the deeper you go. I wonder what spectrum is the right wavelength?

I also tried reducing po4 even though po4 was already clear on the salifert test kit (clear) via rowaphos iron oxide hydroxide. This hasn't helped. I also run activated carbon. I once seen a fellow reefers tank, was one of the most beautiful I've seen. He ran ozone. But also had a huge 5 foot tall skimmer. His aquarium was bare bottom and he had lots of corraline too.

Blue LEDs are only 1 wavelength specific? Perhaps they are missing a certain wavelength. My led light is just blue and white.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

One scientific paper I read said that you can basically tell how deep the water is based on the abundance of corraline algae. Something tells me spectrum is important! Deep in the water it gets more blue, and less red the deeper you go. I wonder what spectrum is the right wavelength?
.

Why color and not just intensity?