DC Pump Aggravation - No Re-Start after Short Power Loss

redfishbluefish · Jul 25, 2018

Well it happened again....we had a typical power outage for our area. The power goes out, and you don't even have time to get up from the couch, and the power is back on. Well that's a problem with DC pumps, and thanks to @ca1ore , he had the answer to the cause of this re-start problem:

When the power goes out, water back siphons and spins the pump impeller the wrong way. If you attempt to restart the pump while it is back spinning it will not restart properly and can do damage to the pump. You need to wait until the back siphon stops before restarting.

I think this is the fourth or fifth time it's happened, one time when my wife and I were away. I simply have to unplug and plug it back in, and it's working again. No problem if you're home, however, with us taking frequent 3 - 7 day excursions, this has become a potential problem.

@ca1ore solved this issue with his tank by programming his reef controller (Apex) to have a two minute delay on restarting. I have an old school ReefKeeper 2, and don't believe I have this luxury.

mcarroll · Jul 25, 2018

redfishbluefish said:
@ca1ore solved this issue with his tank by programming his reef controller (Apex) to have a two minute delay on restarting. I have an old school ReefKeeper 2, and don't believe I have this luxury.

It should be...hm....the halide feature definitely has it if you can adapt to that. I think it's otherwise just a timer outlet. I have only done that on halide and via the pad interface....haven't tried on the Windows program, which generally seems to be better than the pad.

2¢

KStatefan · Jul 25, 2018

I do not know if they make a completed unit but you couple easily build something using a time on delay relay.

laverda · Jul 25, 2018

You could put your pump on a UPS. A larger one can run your pump for several hours.

Crabs McJones · Jul 25, 2018

redfishbluefish said:
Well it happened again....we had a typical power outage for our area. The power goes out, and you don't even have time to get up from the couch, and the power is back on. Well that's a problem with DC pumps, and thanks to @ca1ore , he had the answer to the cause of this re-start problem:

When the power goes out, water back siphons and spins the pump impeller the wrong way. If you attempt to restart the pump while it is back spinning it will not restart properly and can do damage to the pump. You need to wait until the back siphon stops before restarting.

I think this is the fourth or fifth time it's happened, one time when my wife and I were away. I simply have to unplug and plug it back in, and it's working again. No problem if you're home, however, with us taking frequent 3 - 7 day excursions, this has become a potential problem.

@ca1ore solved this issue with his tank by programming his reef controller (Apex) to have a two minute delay on restarting. I have an old school ReefKeeper 2, and don't believe I have this luxury.

@n2585722 do you know of a way to do this? Anti drain back valve in line would help with the back siphon at least.

jsker · Jul 25, 2018

Back flow Valve

ca1ore · Jul 25, 2018

This is perhaps the only sensible use of a check valve. I chose to not use one on my system because of the flow losses - and I need every GPH I can get. Interestingly, I recently bought a whole-house standby generator, and when utility service cuts out, the generator takes 30 seconds to spin up so the delay programmed into my apex becomes even more important.

n2585722 · Jul 25, 2018

Crabs Mcjones said:
@n2585722 do you know of a way to do this? Anti drain back valve in line would help with the back siphon at least.

The Reefkeeper 2 was prior to the RKE/RKL. I am not familiar with that controller.

Blue Spot Octopus · Jul 25, 2018

I have my skimmer on a delay if I have a power outage, I have a Reef Keeper I and simply put the skimmer on Light MH, so if there is a power outage there is a 15 minute delay. You can put any piece of equipment on this way, so the return pump as well. The big problem is that I do not think you can run it 24/7, for a skimmer that is not a big problem but for a return pump it can be. So my skimmer turns off at 11;45 and comes back on at midnight.

ksed · Jul 25, 2018

Just run a property sized AC pump

mcarroll · Jul 26, 2018

I didn't see the "2" after ReefKeeper.....a true classic!

In that case I side with ksed:

ksed said:
Just run a property sized AC pump

Fudsey · Jul 26, 2018

I also say why not use a UPS to supplement the pump. If you have a standby generator, the UPS will only be needed for the 15-30 seconds it takes for the generator to turn on and the gentran to switch over.

ca1ore · Jul 26, 2018

Fudsey said:
I also say why not use a UPS to supplement the pump. If you have a standby generator, the UPS will only be needed for the 15-30 seconds it takes for the generator to turn on and the gentran to switch over.

I'll have to look into this - I just 'assumed' that at 390 watts, my property sized (LOL) pump would be too much for the UPS.

Fudsey · Jul 26, 2018

ca1ore said:
I'll have to look into this - I just 'assumed' that at 390 watts, my property sized (LOL) pump would be too much for the UPS.

;Hilarious ;Hilarious ;Hilarious

Sleepydoc · Jul 26, 2018

I've seen delay device plugs that delay turning the power on for a few minutes. (Here is one I found with a quick google search. I'm not advocating it in any way; it's just the first one I came across.) If you're handy, you could probably make a simple 555 timer circuit with a relay to accomplish the same thing.

laverda · Jul 26, 2018

ca1ore said:
I'll have to look into this - I just 'assumed' that at 390 watts, my property sized (LOL) pump would be too much for the UPS.

From wa
From what I saw in a quick look at your build thread your pump sounds like it is a real energy hog.

ca1ore · Jul 27, 2018

laverda said:
From what I saw in a quick look at your build thread your pump sounds like it is a real energy hog.

There aren't many reliable pumps that can push against 14-15' of net head pressure - and none that will do it economically. If there was, I'd be using it!

redfishbluefish · Jul 27, 2018

I greatly appreciate all the replies and suggestions. As some knew or eventually realized, the ReefKeeper 2 is an antique...but it fits my needs in not pestering me with messages sent to my phone. I wish they still offered it for sale.

The only way I could use my ReefKeeper is if I set it up to run all buy a couple minutes once or twice a day. What this would do is "reset" the pump if it just happened to shut down from a power outage. Worst case, the pump would be off for 12 hours. I'm not crazy about this one.

With regard to the UPS, I actually have one that I'm trying to sell....and I don't want it because it takes up too much space....so that's out.

And as far as back flow valves / check valves, no way, no how.....I avoid them like the plague. They are just waiting to crap out on you. And you know it's going to happen when you're not around.

My next line of defense was simply switching out the DC pump for my backup pump....a MAG 9.5....when we go on one of our little trips. Although not crazy about this option, it seemed to be the most reasonable, and I can switch pumps in less than five minutes......

Until...... @Sleepydoc suggested and linked a delay timer. A little pricey, but a quick search found THIS ONE from $10.25. It has a three minute delay on start-up....that should work.

I'm going to continue to do a little more digging to see if a DIY option is available.....love my DIY!

Thanks again everyone.....wouldn't have gotten here without you.