Debating between High end equipment or NOT? is there a justifiable difference?

[Vmacisback]

Hi Guys,

Ive been in this hobby a long time IMO and have had my share of good and bad equipment. For this post/thread id like to keep the talk mainly about pumps and skimmers, not lighting and other stuff. I am setting up a new build and am freshly back from Reefapalooza with ideas and a long list of needs for my new 280G setup. Obviously by now most know this hobby can get very expensive in all aspects but especially when it comes to the hardware of our tanks. The reason for this post is to get some experiences of folks with what equipment has worked and exceeded your expectations versus what hasn't work and under performed based on a monetary scale. What I am getting at is trying to understand is for instance a Bubble king skimmer truly better than say an Eshopps or Your Choice Aquatics skimmer. Not talking warranties or customer service just pure performance of the equipment. Questions like did the cheaper product perform just as well all things considered? or did it just fall apart or stop working.

After doing this for a while I have surprised myself after a couple years I had a very high end skimmer pump go out. I then bought a skimmer that wasn't even a quarter of the price and it kicked butt and I truly didn't see a difference, just makes me wonder on my new build do I actually need the name brand super "high end" stuff or does the so call "low end" stuff perform just as well?

 

[trido]

I have a Bubble King 250 that is 12 years old. Last year I retired the pump because the impeller teeth were worn down and I didnt want to spend 250 on a new impeller for a ten year old motor. The motor and impellar magnet looked brand new still on the inside. Zero wear on the magnet or inside the pump. I sold the pump body for $250 and bought a bubble blaster pump for $150 used. The skimmer body is still in great shape aside from a little crazing from running ozone through it for most of its 11 years. I can tell you, I don't expect the bubble blaster to last ten years.

As far as lighting, I have low end LED lights and they grow corals like crazy. However, I customize the spectrum and have to replace the emitters almost annually due to thin non-existent heat sinks in them. More expensive LED's last longer because they have higher quality emitters and thicker heat sinks.

 

[Vmacisback]

I have a Bubble King 250 that is 12 years old. Last year I retired the pump because the impeller teeth were worn down and I didnt want to spend 250 on a new impeller for a ten year old motor. The motor and impellar magnet looked brand new still on the inside. Zero wear on the magnet or inside the pump. I sold the pump body for $250 and bought a bubble blaster pump for $150 used. The skimmer body is still in great shape aside from a little crazing from running ozone through it for most of its 11 years. I can tell you, I don't expect the bubble blaster to last ten years.

As far as lighting, I have low end LED lights and they grow corals like crazy. However, I customize the spectrum and have to replace the emitters almost annually due to thin non-existent heat sinks in them. More expensive LED's last longer because they have higher quality emitters and thicker heat sinks.

So I guess the question is would you buy another bubble king and spend the money or did the bubble blaster pump make you think you didnt ever really need the BK pump to begin with?

 

[legionofdoon]

Life reef for this reason, time tested. Metal halides for the same reasons. I tried cone skimmers and LED's and carbon dosing and went back to Metal halides a refugium and the life reef. With no regrets. My tank is open top no canopy with a 250 watt mh/4 24 inch T5 combo and my temp went up 2 degrees with no chiller. I had a SWC octopus and when the pump burned out I bought a SCA 302 for about the same price as the pump. It was a good skimmer but I always wanted a life reef and found one on eBay for a steal and it is the best skimmer I've ever used. I hated LEDs the colors look like crap to me, too dim and as soon as I ramped them up I fried my corals yet still looked dim to me. I started off with 175 10K ushios, and actinic PC'S. I tried vodka dosing and yes it'll strip your nitrates but it was a pain in the butt and my LPs and Zoas did not like it. So I went back to the refugium/skimmer/ MH combo that had worked for me in the past when I set up my new tank. I feed my fish twice a day with a total of 3 hikari mysis cubes. My phosphates are not detectable and my nitrates are around 10. Which is fine by me.

 

[legionofdoon]

My newly set up 40 breeder.

 

[Noobreefer22]

Now I am still new this hobby but I had a jebao wavemaker and also a mp40 that someone gifted me but I felt like the jebao worked just as good as the mp40
But I don’t know about long term wise yet

 

[legionofdoon]

Jebao has been good to me so far. I'm using 2 DCP 8000, one as a return and one for the skimmer. I had/have one of their wave pumps but don't need it with this tank however the wave maker was going strong after 7 years.

 

[legionofdoon]

Of course I had better longevity with Rio pumps than the Mags. I still wish I could find a hyper flow.

 

[scardall]

When it comes to pumps. The best are External pumps as they last the longest and do not heat up the water. I have an old Gen-x Ext. Pump that is over 20 years old. I have a back up, new in box (Same model 12 years newer too) that is 8+ years old now. Now with skimmers there are many real nice ones. Examples: Nyros,Reef Octopus,Tunze, Bubble magnus and AquaMaxx (Have this one) good luck (PS: Cost is not always an indicater of the best for you) spending more for a name isn't always best. Research alot please? (IF YOU WANT more Specifics PLEASE ask? )

 

[Mike1995]

A lot of my equipment is "cheaper".. bubble Magnus skimmer and reactors. Sunsun wave pumps. $25 300w heater. Finnex light. Only "expensive" thing I have is a bashsea sump .
I would love to have radions. Reef octopus. Vertex. All these super expensive things . But I'm sorry, a light surely does not take $800 to make . A skimmer doesn't take $350 to make . A sump doesn't take $2000 to make . And the materials surely don't cost hundreds or thousands either. I personally think companies run prices up stupid high for no reason . people like myself can't afford the stuff .

 

[Vmacisback]

Now I am still new this hobby but I had a jebao wavemaker and also a mp40 that someone gifted me but I felt like the jebao worked just as good as the mp40
But I don’t know about long term wise yet

This is exactly what I’m talking about! Now if the Jebao goes out in a year that’s one thing but in the mean time while it’s performing is there really any difference besides the fact that you saved some money to achieve the same thing?

 

[Vmacisback]

A lot of my equipment is "cheaper".. bubble Magnus skimmer and reactors. Sunsun wave pumps. $25 300w heater. Finnex light. Only "expensive" thing I have is a bashsea sump .
I would love to have radions. Reef octopus. Vertex. All these super expensive things . But I'm sorry, a light surely does not take $800 to make . A skimmer doesn't take $350 to make . A sump doesn't take $2000 to make . And the materials surely don't cost hundreds or thousands either. I personally think companies run prices up stupid high for no reason . people like myself can't afford the stuff .

I guess the point and question here is do you think your reef would be better from any standpoint if you bought the high end equipment vs. the cheaper stuff? I doubt it husbandry is always a factor but if we’re just talking about equipment and performance I don’t think the high end stuff does anything that much better to make you spend the extra cash.

 

[Vmacisback]

When it comes to pumps. The best are External pumps as they last the longest and do not heat up the water. I have an old Gen-x Ext. Pump that is over 20 years old. I have a back up, new in box (Same model 12 years newer too) that is 8+ years old now. Now with skimmers there are many real nice ones. Examples: Nyros,Reef Octopus,Tunze, Bubble magnus and AquaMaxx (Have this one) good luck (PS: Cost is not always an indicater of the best for you) spending more for a name isn't always best. Research alot please? (IF YOU WANT more Specifics PLEASE ask? )

I agree, just from a performance standpoint does the higher end equipment bring better results than the cheaper stuff? I think with all the brands and price points out now you would have a hard time choosing a bad piece of equipment.

 

[dannyfish]

Hi Guys,

Ive been in this hobby a long time IMO and have had my share of good and bad equipment. For this post/thread id like to keep the talk mainly about pumps and skimmers, not lighting and other stuff. I am setting up a new build and am freshly back from Reefapalooza with ideas and a long list of needs for my new 280G setup. Obviously by now most know this hobby can get very expensive in all aspects but especially when it comes to the hardware of our tanks. The reason for this post is to get some experiences of folks with what equipment has worked and exceeded your expectations versus what hasn't work and under performed based on a monetary scale. What I am getting at is trying to understand is for instance a Bubble king skimmer truly better than say an Eshopps or Your Choice Aquatics skimmer. Not talking warranties or customer service just pure performance of the equipment. Questions like did the cheaper product perform just as well all things considered? or did it just fall apart or stop working.

After doing this for a while I have surprised myself after a couple years I had a very high end skimmer pump go out. I then bought a skimmer that wasn't even a quarter of the price and it kicked butt and I truly didn't see a difference, just makes me wonder on my new build do I actually need the name brand super "high end" stuff or does the so call "low end" stuff perform just as well?

I like your post. Let’s get real with pricing. I do agree that these high end lights and equipment are banking big bucks when we could get away with low end products. I haven’t purchased anything since my tank crashed because I was to busy taking care of my infant baby. I am slowly getting back into it. I have my eyes on the Aquatic Life T5/LED hybrid but haven’t made the move yet. I’m still using a cheap black box, MarsAqua.

 

[Vmacisback]

To give some clarity on this thread I currently have a bubble king 180 with the speedy pump. It cost a little over $1k, I bought it cause I thought it was the best from a performance standpoint. I’m not saying it’s not doing a great job but I’m just wondering had I paid $350 for a skimmer instead would I see less performance and be upset with my “cheaper” purchase.

Right now I’m building an equipment list. If I continue on pace with the equipment I want I’d have to pull out a loan (joking) but it’s be overly expensive without any real test if it’s better than cheaper equipment. For example on my new build if I bought another bubble king it would cost me around $1300-$1600. If I bought a Your Choice Aquatic’s dc skimmer it would only cost $349.00. Would I see less performance if all was equally rated? Or would I just be a happy reefer with money in my pocket for corals and fish?

 

[Vahanyos]

In my opinion you don’t have to spend a ton of money to get the job done. Some more expensive pieces of equipment look better, and may have a longer life span but with maintenance that shouldn’t be a problem. Faulty units come in all shapes and sizes. If you’re buying absolute junk then of course it’s going to fail. I’ve seen expensive skimmers not perform well because they’re not dialed in properly, but “it was the most expensive”. And the guy who spent $120 for a skimmer knows how to dial it in and is getting the most performance out of it.

 

[Vmacisback]

In my opinion you don’t have to spend a ton of money to get the job done. Some more expensive pieces of equipment look better, and may have a longer life span but with maintenance that shouldn’t be a problem. Faulty units come in all shapes and sizes. If you’re buying absolute junk then of course it’s going to fail. I’ve seen expensive skimmers not perform well because they’re not dialed in properly, but “it was the most expensive”. And the guy who spent $120 for a skimmer knows how to dial it in and is getting the most performance out of it.

I think dialing things in and maintainence are a huge part of making the cheaper stuff work the same if not better than the high end stuff!

 

[scardall]

I think dialing things in and maintenance are a huge part of making the cheaper stuff work the same if not better than the high end stuff!

Cheaper is relative. For me for a 75g to 220g you don't need to spend over $500 for a skimmer. Example: https://www.marinedepot.com/AquaMaxx_ConeS_Q_2_In_Sump_Protein_Skimmer_In_Sump_Protein_Skimmers_for_Aquariums_Reefs-AquaMaxx-UJ00157-FIPSIS-vi.html ($355) ( I use this on a 75g heavily loaded mixed reef)

 

[Matthew Frost]

I haven't been in this hobby a long time but one of the things I have learned is there are more than enough people that are happy to sell you a heaping pile of super expensive widgets that have no chance of helping you achieve your goals. I dont think its all about cost, I think a better descriptor is cost az it approaches the point of diminishing return. Theoretically, a $1000 skimmer should work twice as well as a $500 skimmer or work just as well and last twice as long. But that is rarely the case. I think one of the best questions is going to be am I getting a proportional increase in performance/reliability/durability in relation to an items cost.

 

[gws3]

It looks like you are setting up a 280 gallon sps dominated tank, is that correct?

With the amount you'll have invested in livestock with a tank that size it would be foolish (just my opinion) to go cheap on the return pump. It is a critical part of the system and you want the best reliability. That also doesn't mean the most expensive pump with lots of features, good build quality but simple is best for reliability. Older style AC pumps rarely fail, just need bearings and seals maintained.

For skimmers I like middle of the road. I'm partial to reef octopus. Really solid build quality but not super expensive. And if the skimmer pump fails, it's not hard to find or expensive to replace. Good build quality means a body that will last seemingly forever, so a super expensive skimmer will have a high replacement cost and often takes a while to get.