Debating between High end equipment or NOT? is there a justifiable difference?

[Vmacisback]

It looks like you are setting up a 280 gallon sps dominated tank, is that correct?

With the amount you'll have invested in livestock with a tank that size it would be foolish (just my opinion) to go cheap on the return pump. It is a critical part of the system and you want the best reliability. That also doesn't mean the most expensive pump with lots of features, good build quality but simple is best for reliability. Older style AC pumps rarely fail, just need bearings and seals maintained.

For skimmers I like middle of the road. I'm partial to reef octopus. Really solid build quality but not super expensive. And if the skimmer pump fails, it's not hard to find or expensive to replace. Good build quality means a body that will last seemingly forever, so a super expensive skimmer will have a high replacement cost and often takes a while to get.

I agree, I guess the theory in this thread is what is gained by not going cheap with things like the return pump? Maybe piece of mind? I don’t necessarily sleep better at night knowing I spent too much on equipment to get a high end named brand. Those have problems as well. I would on the other hand feel good about spending a lot of money on a well built tank by a trusted manufacturer with a warranty of sorts. Just my opinion. It’s funny I’ve had my current sps tank going for about 3 years and my return pump is a Jebao dc that I thought would have crapped out within the first year.

 

[scardall]

I agree, I guess the theory in this thread is what is gained by not going cheap with things like the return pump? Maybe piece of mind? I don’t necessarily sleep better at night knowing I spent too much on equipment to get a high end named brand. Those have problems as well. I would on the other hand feel good about spending a lot of money on a well built tank by a trusted manufacturer with a warranty of sorts. Just my opinion. It’s funny I’ve had my current sps tank going for about 3 years and my return pump is a Jebao dc that I thought would have crapped out within the first year.

The longest lasting pumps are External. I kinda like Varios, just from research and cost.

 

[ca1ore]

I'm not even sure what 'high end' means in the context of reef tank equipment. High priced? Better quality? Greater longevity? I have been in the hobby for almost 30 years, and have no plans to stop anytime soon. I try to buy quality gear, figuring that it will last longer and thus actually be cheaper in the long run. I bought an Iwaki pump in 1988 and ran it continuously until 2009. How many Jebaos, as illustration, would I have to rebuy over time to get over 20 years of service. Probably a lot more than the original Iwaki cost me.

The trouble, of course, is that price and quality aren't always correlated. While the pump may fail and need replacing, a cheaper skimmer may not be any less useful than a more expensive one. Same for powerheads or lights. I am a fan of the vortech pumps, not because I necessarily think the quality means less lifetime ownership cost than a Jebao, but because I like the form and function.

Ultimately, for me, I will spend a bit more for presumed quality in those things that are critical for the tank. I will always used tried and true external return pumps and good quality heaters.

 

[Shluffer]

I retired my vertex skimmer an picked up a lifereef. I couldn't be happier with it. I'm running reefbreeder lights, a waveline return pump, and a jebao powerhead. I spent money on an APEX because I travel for work. Was worth it.

It's worth spending money on things if your situation dictates. I'm having trouble with sand storms. Thinking about switching yo a gyre to get more control over the flow. It's worth it b/c I have a 7 foot tank and directional flow creates issues in it. Otherwise I would stick with my Jebao.

 

[Vmacisback]

I retired my vertex skimmer an picked up a lifereef. I couldn't be happier with it. I'm running reefbreeder lights, a waveline return pump, and a jebao powerhead. I spent money on an APEX because I travel for work. Was worth it.

It's worth spending money on things if your situation dictates. I'm having trouble with sand storms. Thinking about switching yo a gyre to get more control over the flow. It's worth it b/c I have a 7 foot tank and directional flow creates issues in it. Otherwise I would stick with my Jebao.

You bring up a good point maybe to spend more money directly where you know you want reliability. I to have an apex and wouldn’t run a tank without it mainly because of travel.

 

[Vmacisback]

I'm not even sure what 'high end' means in the context of reef tank equipment. High priced? Better quality? Greater longevity? I have been in the hobby for almost 30 years, and have no plans to stop anytime soon. I try to buy quality gear, figuring that it will last longer and thus actually be cheaper in the long run. I bought an Iwaki pump in 1998 and ran it continuously until 2009. How many Jebaos, as illustration, would I have to rebuy over time to get over 20 years of service. Probably a lot more than the original Iwaki cost me.

The trouble, of course, is that price and quality aren't always correlated. While the pump may fail and need replacing, a cheaper skimmer may not be any less useful than a more expensive one. Same for powerheads or lights. I am a fan of the vortech pumps, not because I necessarily think the quality means less lifetime ownership cost than a Jebao, but because I like the form and function.

Ultimately, for me, I will spend a bit more for presumed quality in those things that are critical for the tank. I will always used tried and true external return pumps and good quality heaters.

High end meaning higher price. Well I have only bought one Jebao and it works great so I’m not really thinking about replacing. Btw 1998 to 2009 is 11 years not 20 but it sounds like a great buy none the less.

 

[cvrle1]

I am a type of person that tries and save money where I can, but I also try to buy something that will last longer time, so I kind of look at middle of the line equipment. I dont go for cheapest stuff, but I dont go for top of the line either. With that said, there is middle ground for me that allows me to by better equipment for cheaper. Buy it used. A lot of folks out there buy way too powerful lights, skimmers, return pumps, etc only to sell them in relatively short time. This allows me to buy better equipment for cheaper. I know there are people that have to have everything brand new and scoff at the thought of buying used and thats fine. it just means less people interested in buying what I want

 

[uncle luke]

I’m going to try the more economical methods moving forward. Case in point, bought a BK Mini 160 just over a year ago and the pump just siezed a week ago. I performed regular maintaince on it but it still said bye bye to me. You would like higher end items would last longer.

 

[ca1ore]

High end meaning higher price. Well I have only bought one Jebao and it works great so I’m not really thinking about replacing. Btw 1998 to 2009 is 11 years not 20 but it sounds like a great buy none the less.

Yes, math is not the problem ….. typing is. Should have said 1988. My broader point is that people think short term when buying stuff. Maybe that works for most, but I tend to play the long game. Plus I travel a lot for my job so I want a decade plus bullet proof main return pump. If it fails when I am out of town, that is a problem.

 

[scardall]

I’m going to try the more economical methods moving forward. Case in point, bought a BK Mini 160 just over a year ago and the pump just siezed a week ago. I performed regular maintaince on it but it still said bye bye to me. You would like higher end items would last longer.

For skimmers the Sicce Italian pumps are the best on the market still. I bought a Vertex in 2009 and sold it to a LFS 2 years ago and it is still going. Pump is noisy, but never did any maintenance on it. So go with an Italian pump like sicce and you will not be disappointed.

 

[Blue Spot Octopus]

First of all your Bubble King 180 skimmer is over size for a Red Sea 525 you could of easily used a Nyos 160 which is a expensive skimmer. For your new tank I would go with an Lifereef or equivalent type skimmer.

 

[R4lph]

Life reef equals junk. Not the same as it was many years ago . If anyone is interested I do have a flanged svs3-24 i would sell Cheap just so i don’t ever have to see a life reef product ever again

 

[Support@GHLUSA Verified Sponsor]

First of all your Bubble King 180 skimmer is over size for a Red Sea 525 you could of easily used a Nyos 160 which is a expensive skimmer. For your new tank I would go with an Lifereef or equivalent type skimmer.

Not necessarily - is it a Mini Bubble King 180, or a Double Cone 180...

 

[Support@GHLUSA Verified Sponsor]

I’m going to try the more economical methods moving forward. Case in point, bought a BK Mini 160 just over a year ago and the pump just siezed a week ago. I performed regular maintaince on it but it still said bye bye to me. You would like higher end items would last longer.

Have you reached out to Royal's support about it?
[email protected], or join the FB group.

 

[R4lph]

Life reef equals junk. Not the same as it was many years ago. If anyone is interested I do have a svs3-24 skimmer that I would sell cheap just so I don’t ever have to look st another junk reef product ever again

 

[Atti2de]

Personally as for skimmers I’ve run Reef octopus, bubble Magus, Aquamaxx and Nyos. All were bought used except the Nyos. The Aquamaxx skimmer was the best and is my backup skimmer. I’m using the Nyos now and works great but it’s still new and I’m dialing it in(still learning it). The Nyos skimmer is also the quieter of all I’ve had.

I’ve had Jebao, gyre, hydro and Mp10/40s. Hated the Gyre for cleaning reasons alone. The Jebaos did well but one did break with in the first year. But, I did just sent back a Apex Dos that had one bad head new out of the box. By far I think the MP40s are the best. No wires in the tank, easy to clean and awesome flow patterns.

Return pumps I’ve mostly run Jebao and Vectra pumps. I’ve had good luck with Jebao. I’ve run Dc650, Dc1200 and Dc8000s with no issues for years. The controllers are cheap and the pumps a little loud. Love the Vectra since it’s so quiet. Also, since it’s easy to add to a battery backup.

I’ve also added the Reef Link for simple control of the MP40s and Vectras. I’ve run a budget reef tank and bought used equipment. Sold coral old equipment over the last two years. Upgrading each time to have what I do now.

Higher end equipment is usually better. Better build quality, controllers, life span. That said cheap can work well if maintained and cared for. I always say buy the best you can afford and/or look for quality used parts.

I did the stupid thing of adding up what my tank would cost if I bought everything new. Then I figured out that I actually have in it. Was happy to see I only have 25% of what full retail would have been. But it’s still
A high number

 

[BornHandy]

I bought high end, not because I thought the lower end couldn't do it, but because I wanted controllable, and silent operation.

I had awesome success in the past with magdrive pumps and home made skimmers. -Mostly because I couldn't afford the nice stuff back then, I did what I could with what I had.

If you want to know if I think success is possible with low end pumps and skimmers, yes. I also think the high end ones will do the same job, but do it better, quieter, and with fine tuning options you just can't get on the cheaper stuff.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ive always told the many who got into this hobby, try to buy the best you can afford and buy it ONCE. I have gone from low end doser to high end. Intro lighting to top lighting and small tank to large tank. We all start somewhere and as I have seen many doing a build with the very best....Take ONE component at a time and focus first on water flow and lighting , going down list on doser, skimmer, UV , etc.
I try to upgrade 2-3 components each year until I have acquired the best for the dollar with proven results.

 

[Forsaken77]

To give some clarity on this thread I currently have a bubble king 180 with the speedy pump. It cost a little over $1k, I bought it cause I thought it was the best from a performance standpoint. I’m not saying it’s not doing a great job but I’m just wondering had I paid $350 for a skimmer instead would I see less performance and be upset with my “cheaper” purchase.

Right now I’m building an equipment list. If I continue on pace with the equipment I want I’d have to pull out a loan (joking) but it’s be overly expensive without any real test if it’s better than cheaper equipment. For example on my new build if I bought another bubble king it would cost me around $1300-$1600. If I bought a Your Choice Aquatic’s dc skimmer it would only cost $349.00. Would I see less performance if all was equally rated? Or would I just be a happy reefer with money in my pocket for corals and fish?

My opinion...

First, try to stay away from a dc pump skimmer. They are completely unnecessary, imo. The pump should be tuned optimally to the skimmer body (ac). If you're adjusting flow on the skimmer I feel it's not tuned correctly and you're left trying to find the sweet spot that the ac pump skimmer already has.

As far as the BK skimmer... The build quality is mostly what you paid for, not so much a performance difference. They are made solid, not paper-thin acrylic like most skimmers, and the pump is made to last much longer than the average skimmer. You may get slightly better performance, but nothing that would make a significant noticeable difference. Just better quality parts and build all around.

Now, pumps in the tank, powerheads (I still call them) or wavemakers.... they move water. That's it. The Vortech pumps are unique in that thete are no cords in the tank and just swapping a wet side to clean the dirty one is easy. But any old pump will push water around. It just matters on what you're looking for. Personally, I got tired of having to trace and route the power cord through the whole setup to unplug the powerheads just to do it again after I cleaned the pumps. You're setup may be easier.

As for the returns, I feel this is the heart of the tank. I would NEVER use a Jebao, or any Chinese pump, for a critical component of a large tank (there's a difference between a Chinese pump and a pump made in China). But that's me. I also don't think you need a $1,300 Abyzz pump either, especially if you're using two pumps for dual returns.

So to sum it up, the pumps in the tank don't matter as much (though some may be more prone to stray voltage, as well as the other pumps). Skimmers don't need a dc pump, which won't last as long as an ac pump running 24/7, and I'd even go as far as to say it can make them have worse performance if not dialed in properly. It's another setting on top of how you already dial in a skimmer. The return should be something reputable and solid. I like dc pumps for returns but they last longer if not running at 100%. So oversizing may cost slightly more.

Good luck with the new build

 

[ca1ore]

Life reef equals junk. Not the same as it was many years ago. If anyone is interested I do have a svs3-24 skimmer that I would sell cheap just so I don’t ever have to look st another junk reef product ever again

I think most would disagree with you, but there's always the exception. After all, only 99 out of 100 dentists recommend brushing your teeth.