Diver's Den Fish without QT???

[ourcoralreef]

yeah I read about the sand for the wrasse..

I guess I'll put them both in the QT just to be safe. Hopefully the wrasse doesn't contaminate the dottyback, that'd be a bummer lol

thanks for the replies!

Always better to qt yourself
Both of those fish don’t usually have parasites
Take a look at them in the bag before putt them in qt

 

[mattzang]

Always better to qt yourself
Both of those fish don’t usually have parasites
Take a look at them in the bag before putt them in qt

Yeah I'm sure it is, I'm just new so it's kinda scary lol. At the end of the day, $60 of dottyback/wrasse isn't nearly as much as what's in the DT so yeah.

I guess I'm also apprehensive because I went ghetto on the QT with some crap heater and there being no biological media in there is weird to me. I actually have some rocks from my DT that I just took out, but I keep reading it's bad to leave live rock in a QT? Does it mess with the medication? I get that if I leave any rocks or use anything in a QT and I use meds, that stuff can never go in a non QT tank again, but if I don't mind just leaving one rock in there forever is that ok?

 

[ourcoralreef]

Yeah I'm sure it is, I'm just new so it's kinda scary lol. At the end of the day, $60 of dottyback/wrasse isn't nearly as much as what's in the DT so yeah.

I guess I'm also apprehensive because I went ghetto on the QT with some crap heater and there being no biological media in there is weird to me. I actually have some rocks from my DT that I just took out, but I keep reading it's bad to leave live rock in a QT? Does it mess with the medication? I get that if I leave any rocks or use anything in a QT and I use meds, that stuff can never go in a non QT tank again, but if I don't mind just leaving one rock in there forever is that ok?

Well some say rock and sand isint a good idea depending on the medication too
If you want to have some biological media put a sponge in your dt and use that i would also recommend you use a ammonia alert badge as that would help you see if you have any sudden spikes in ammonia
amzn.to/2RJ7Aiq
Its pretty cheap and i use it comfortably

 

[mattzang]

Well some say rock and sand isint a good idea depending on the medication too
If you want to have some biological media put a sponge in your dt and use that i would also recommend you use a ammonia alert badge as that would help you see if you have any sudden spikes in ammonia
amzn.to/2RJ7Aiq
Its pretty cheap and i use it comfortably

I found a couple quarantine threads so I'll be reading them tonight and tomorrow!

Sounds like the rock will leach medications so I think I'll just take it out. I just was leaving it in there since I was eventually planning to do a nano tank and use that live rock. maybe I'll put it in a bucket with saltwater in it and just figure it'll have dieoff.

Thanks man I really appreciate yours and others help on this. Bummer to go from thinking I had acquired the perfect fish DD AND ORA that I wouldn't need to QT, but apparently not. Hopefully I don't have much dottyback on wrasse violence in there..

 

[ourcoralreef]

I found a couple quarantine threads so I'll be reading them tonight and tomorrow!

Sounds like the rock will leach medications so I think I'll just take it out. I just was leaving it in there since I was eventually planning to do a nano tank and use that live rock. maybe I'll put it in a bucket with saltwater in it and just figure it'll have dieoff.

Thanks man I really appreciate yours and others help on this. Bummer to go from thinking I had acquired the perfect fish DD AND ORA that I wouldn't need to QT, but apparently not. Hopefully I don't have much dottyback on wrasse violence in there..

There is tons of information out there just don’t get too confused with all the options go with what most have done

I would actually leave the rock in there since you aren’t medicating yet
If you decide to medicate with something thats not reef safe then take it out

You probably did acquire a perfect fish but better not to risk it

 

[joec]

If you want to stay in the hobby for a long time, quarantine. If you dont, it will be a short term, expensive, depressing and highly frustrating experience.

 

[pdiehm]

good luck with live aquaria.

Over the past few years, I've purchased 23 fish from them, both DD and LA. a grand total of 0....has made it out of quarantine. Same quarantine process that I use for fish I buy outside of Philly. None of them have perished.

if someone would ask me about Live Aquaria fish, I'd tell them go somewhere else.

 

[CMO]

good luck with live aquaria.

Over the past few years, I've purchased 23 fish from them, both DD and LA. a grand total of 0....has made it out of quarantine. Same quarantine process that I use for fish I buy outside of Philly. None of them have perished.

if someone would ask me about Live Aquaria fish, I'd tell them go somewhere else.

Your saying you lost all 23 fish fish from dd and LA? That just doesn't sound right. I'm going on over 30 fish from dd without a single diseased fish...

Did one or a few contaminate all of them in qt by chance?

 

[pdiehm]

Your saying you lost all 23 fish fish from dd and LA? That just doesn't sound right. I'm going on over 30 fish from dd without a single diseased fish...

Did one or a few contaminate all of them in qt by chance?

that is accurate. no chance for contamination due to the tank being bleached, vinegar, filled, dechlorinated, and dried for several months prior to next use.

I've never had a LA or DD fish live past 30 days. Most recent order, will be my last. 8 barrier reef chromis ordered. Within 3 days, 3 died. money back. great. remaining 5 fish ate very well, active over the next 21 days. On day 22, 1 died. Day 24, another death. Day 28, 1 death. day 30, 2 deaths.

Per Live Aquaria instructions, I changed 2.5 gallons every other day, and added the approprate dose of Copper Power (chelated copper) to the new water. Copper reading throughout the QT was 2.2ppm per Hanna HR copper checker. Weekly tests of Ammonia yielded 0 ammonia reading, QT set up with a bag of biomedia from display sump which was about 17 months aged, and a bottle of Biospira to assist.

The only thing I did different this time from my last QT run with my Hippo Tang was changing 2.5 gallons of water every other day, and that was 10 months ago, who I have aptly named Boss Hogg. He doesn't take the Yellow's crap and is a pig.

 

[ourcoralreef]

good luck with live aquaria.

Over the past few years, I've purchased 23 fish from them, both DD and LA. a grand total of 0....has made it out of quarantine. Same quarantine process that I use for fish I buy outside of Philly. None of them have perished.

if someone would ask me about Live Aquaria fish, I'd tell them go somewhere else.

Over the years I have purchased about 100+ fish from them the only ones that died were delayed shipments and jumpers
i might have gotten one or two fish (maybe a blue hipo) that got sick from them but with the proper care came back to full health
On the other hand all the fish i have purchased locally has died maybe some clownfish survived
Everyone has different experiences but from what i have seen most have good experiences with liveaquaria & dd the 14day guarantee doesn’t hurt either [emoji6]

 

[ourcoralreef]

that is accurate. no chance for contamination due to the tank being bleached, vinegar, filled, dechlorinated, and dried for several months prior to next use.

I've never had a LA or DD fish live past 30 days. Most recent order, will be my last. 8 barrier reef chromis ordered. Within 3 days, 3 died. money back. great. remaining 5 fish ate very well, active over the next 21 days. On day 22, 1 died. Day 24, another death. Day 28, 1 death. day 30, 2 deaths.

Per Live Aquaria instructions, I changed 2.5 gallons every other day, and added the approprate dose of Copper Power (chelated copper) to the new water. Copper reading throughout the QT was 2.2ppm per Hanna HR copper checker. Weekly tests of Ammonia yielded 0 ammonia reading, QT set up with a bag of biomedia from display sump which was about 17 months aged, and a bottle of Biospira to assist.

The only thing I did different this time from my last QT run with my Hippo Tang was changing 2.5 gallons of water every other day, and that was 10 months ago, who I have aptly named Boss Hogg. He doesn't take the Yellow's crap and is a pig.

Copper is a tricky medication even the most experienced reefers have difficulty with it

I have seen Even after the 30 days they have given refunds

 

[Burrito]

i've bought a good deal of fish from divers den in the past few months. in my DT now is a midas blenny, watchman goby, and firefish. all from DD and all good and well 5 months later, 2 clowns from petco also join the mix alive an well.

i bought 2 wrasses from DD a month ago and 1 (malarunus) died within 12 hours and had fluke with a parasite too, the other wrasses( flasher) survived QT and is doing great in QT.

got 7 fish last week and 6 are still in QT, one female lyretail anthia died for no apparent reason to me, and a foxface in QT still is breathing rapidly but otherwise seems ok. 5 weeks to go....

its a crapshoot everywhere until @Humblefish dominates the fish market

DD is good about refunds though and will work with you on the 14day thing if you let them know whats going on in a proper QT

 

[jasonrusso]

good luck with live aquaria.

Over the past few years, I've purchased 23 fish from them, both DD and LA. a grand total of 0....has made it out of quarantine. Same quarantine process that I use for fish I buy outside of Philly. None of them have perished.

if someone would ask me about Live Aquaria fish, I'd tell them go somewhere else.

Come on now, 23?? I've never had a LA or DD fish die on me until after 6 months, at which time that was on me.

If that was the case, why did you keep ordering? Many people, myself included, have had great success. You are so unlucky that 23 straight fish died?

 

[paphater]

I have ordered some very sensitive fish from DD and I have yet to lose one.

 

[jasonrusso]

Yeah I'm sure it is, I'm just new so it's kinda scary lol. At the end of the day, $60 of dottyback/wrasse isn't nearly as much as what's in the DT so yeah.

I guess I'm also apprehensive because I went ghetto on the QT with some crap heater and there being no biological media in there is weird to me. I actually have some rocks from my DT that I just took out, but I keep reading it's bad to leave live rock in a QT? Does it mess with the medication? I get that if I leave any rocks or use anything in a QT and I use meds, that stuff can never go in a non QT tank again, but if I don't mind just leaving one rock in there forever is that ok?

Get a better heater, a "good" Aqueon heater costs $20 or less on Amazon. A cheap heater will have large swings (I bought a cheap one once, and it had 8 degree swings. The Aqueon is maybe 1.5 degrees. Also size it correctly, bigger isn't always better.

I keep a bag of ceramic media (biomax) in my sump in the DT. When I need to QT, I pull some of the ceramic out and put it in the HOB. I then replenish the missing media in the sump.

I never reuse the media, it is pretty cheap.

 

[ourcoralreef]

Just a note as i said before wrasses are sensitive allot of them don’t make it through qt because of stress and can’t tolerate the medication

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Why not offer some advice

because this is going to become another "just observe" , "just medicate" "I think DD fish are clean" thread.

The fact of the matter is that DD is NOT a qt facility and fish are placed in DD because they are rare, grade A or they just need some fish. Yes, they may treat individual fish if warranted but they are not separately plumbed tanks.

There seems to be this over riding fear of medication and profalaticly treating fish. Many fish diseases can be carried and not expressed and I would say MOST people do not have the time or experience to effectively just observe fish.

There are many entirely new people to marine aquaculture and people are suggesting that they just observe their fish. Many people dont even know what ich looks like or never had this particular species of fish so how are they going to know what is normal behavior?

I am of the opinion that ALL fish need to be QTd and treated, regardless of their origin.

My original post implies pretty strongly that if you think fish from DD are safe then you are going to need a dash...or a truckload...of good old fashioned luck to be successful long term.

 

[ScooterV]

I've had much better luck with fish via DD, as compared to other online retailers or through their own own LA. It's nice to get a fish that at LEAST had a little break on the long journey, appears healthy, and at least eating I think it's worth the premium for that alone, at least for some fish, but it certainly isn't a QT.

 

[CMO]

Since just repeating that all fish need to be quarantined really isn't going to help the many who cannot quarantine, here is what has worked well for me absent QT (assuming you'r starting with a new tank):

1. Buy only from DD or captive bred fish that are feeding well. It is important to get fish that are feeding so they can be treated with medicated food in DT if necessary. DD fish have a very good track record of feeding immediately for me.
2. Thoroughly inspect all fish prior to adding to DT for obvious signs of disease. Be prepared to set up an emergency QT if necessary to treat obviously diseased fish upon arrival (have not had to do this yet on nearly 30 fish)
3. Add high risk fish (tangs etc.) over the first few month prior to adding corals. Absent corals it is much easier to treat for disease in DT if necessary.
4. Once high risk fish are established continue to add low risk or captive bred fish until fully stocked.
5. Feed metroplex soak food for 2 weeks following any new acquisition. I had no issues with corals (of all types including SPS) or inverts while feeding metro soaked food in DT. Try to add fish in batches to limit medicated feeding cycles.
6. Feed fish at least 2 times per day with Selcon soaked frozen foods.

The following fish were all obtained from DD (except the Wantanabie which is from POTO) with the following results. .
Yellow Tang, Yellow Eyed Kole Tang, Bellus Angel female, Black Axil Chromis x 2, Blue Spotted Jawfish, Wheeler Gobie x 2, Gold Midas Blenny, Gumdrop Coral Croucher, Royal Grama, Bicolor Anthias, 3 x Bartlet Anthias, 3 x Lyretail Anthias, Fathead Sunburst Anthias, Ocellaris Clown Pair, Wantanabei Angel Male, Tailspot Blenny, Mandarin Goby, Skeletor Morey Eel, 2 x Orchid Dottybacks

Results (most of these fish were added in the first few months of my tank started January 2018 so are seasoned some 6 months plus now on average):

• One Lyretail Anthias died. It would never eat but showed no signs of disease.
• One Bartlet was killed by the two other bartlets
• A handful of fish had white stringy poop (internal parasites) upon arrival. The metro soaked food fed in DT solved this quickly and I have zero fish with this today.
• Other than theses two incidences I've not had any other issue with fish not eating, diseases, infections etc. All other fish are happy and health.

Having said this, no, I do not believe DD or any other vendor provides 100% disease free fish. But, with some planning and preparation I do believe you can improve your odds of success absent QT for those who just can't do it.

 

[paphater]

I went back to school and quite honestly didn't have time to properly qt. I kept adding fish and so far have not had any issues. To be clear my setup was never sterile as I picked it up used. But since I haven't been using a qt, I have had a very simple philosophy. Order healthy fish that have at least been conditioned. Places like DD, Pieces of the ocean, tsm corals. The second thing is I feed heavy with high quality food. I think if you start with healthy fish and keep them strong nutritionally, you can at least mitigate most disease issues.