Dosing iron question.
- Thread starter ddc0715
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Dhoggs
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More coffee. Needed.. lol. So whats the statement circled in red have to do with the dosing chart.
You’re reading the chart wrong...dont forget the box above the statement you circled. Gray box with numbers indicates Aquarium Volume in Liters.
But I guess you seem so sure that you and your LFS are correct so...all I am going to say now is
Test and test again for Fe. And good luck [emoji106]
First thing I would do is verify your test kit is good and have the LFS or someone local verify your water with their own kit.
1. There are 0.264 gallons per liter.
Assuming your 175 gallons includes rock/sand displacement
175g/0.264 = 662.5 liters
2. 1ml/100l = 0.01ppm of iron
15 (1ml/100l = .01ppm) --> 15ml/100l = 0.15ppm
3. 662.5l (15ml/100l) = ~99.5ml to get 0.15ppm
This falls in line with the starting level of 0ppm line by adding the 200l and 400l columns to get your approximate level of 600l. I think the discussion with the LFS got some confusion mixed in resulting in the higher dose recommendation.
Of course, this assumes that none of the iron is binding to rocks and sand as phosphate does. When dosing phosphate, it will take quite a bit of dosing to start bringing levels up as the phosphate binds to the rock and sand. If that is how iron behaves, I wouldn't try to bring it up all in one shot, but dose lower levels multiple times until I start to see it rise and assess my dosing from there. I would need @Randy Holmes-Farley to chime in on this one as I have a rather minimal understanding of chemistry beyond what applies to electrical engineering.
1. There are 0.264 gallons per liter.
Assuming your 175 gallons includes rock/sand displacement
175g/0.264 = 662.5 liters
2. 1ml/100l = 0.01ppm of iron
15 (1ml/100l = .01ppm) --> 15ml/100l = 0.15ppm
3. 662.5l (15ml/100l) = ~99.5ml to get 0.15ppm
This falls in line with the starting level of 0ppm line by adding the 200l and 400l columns to get your approximate level of 600l. I think the discussion with the LFS got some confusion mixed in resulting in the higher dose recommendation.
Of course, this assumes that none of the iron is binding to rocks and sand as phosphate does. When dosing phosphate, it will take quite a bit of dosing to start bringing levels up as the phosphate binds to the rock and sand. If that is how iron behaves, I wouldn't try to bring it up all in one shot, but dose lower levels multiple times until I start to see it rise and assess my dosing from there. I would need @Randy Holmes-Farley to chime in on this one as I have a rather minimal understanding of chemistry beyond what applies to electrical engineering.
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ddc0715
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Oh i understand what yall are saying. I just find it odd that after a massive dose of 300 mls i am still reading zero. And my tank is fine and of course im not sure what an iron od looks like.i to am unsure about chemistry. I am awaiting an email response from red sea.
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ddc0715
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Im on my way to another lfs. They offered to use my test kit on their water. To see if my test kit was faulty. That has nothing to do with my math error but. They assured me its pretty hard to od a tank my size with redsea trace elements.
Was the bottle new before you dosed the 300ml?
How much is left?
Did you measure you water at the other LFS?
Are you currently registering anything on your test kit?
How did you dose it? All at once, high flow area?
What did you use to measure the dose?
How much is left?
Did you measure you water at the other LFS?
Are you currently registering anything on your test kit?
How did you dose it? All at once, high flow area?
What did you use to measure the dose?
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ddc0715
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Yes.
200 ml,
yes 17mls,
no but saw today that the iron color change is veryyyy fant. Dosed about 100 ml ever 2 hrs. Not all at once.
Yes dosed in the return chamber.
Red sea test kits.
Thats alot of questions where you going with it?.
Just curious. Sometimes people have misconceptions about the actual volumes they are dosing. I know of some people that thought one drop was equal to 1ml due to misremembering some elementary school experiments. I take it the bottle is a little less than half full, or was after the initial 300ml was dosed. I was also curious if there was the possibility of the iron precipitating out. Did you shake the bottle before dosing?
I am interested to see what Red Sea comes back with. I do see how you could be interpreting the chart to read how much to dose per 100l, but unless there is something going on chemically in the background that I am not seeing, it doesn’t make sense that the amount dosed per 100l changes based on total volume. Why would you need to dose 15ml per 100l to increase Fe to 0.15ppm in a 100l system, yet need to dose 30ml per 100l to increase Fe to 0.15ppm in a 200l system for a total dose of 60ml? That would be four times the dose to bring twice the volume to 0.15ppm, which would equate to double the dosing rate. With that logic, you could save a lot of money by removing most of your water and dosing in 5 gallon buckets before adding the water back to your aquarium.
Also, interpreting the chart the way you did, the line above the chart that staes 1ml/100l = 0.01ppm Fe means nothing as there would need to be a scaling factor for system volume. Between all of my dosing between my reef tank and freshwater aquariums, I haven’t come across anything that hasn’t been a consistent ratio between dose per unit volume regardless of system volume. There are some things that take a larger dose to bring the levels up to a given point, but once at that level, the dose per unit volume is consistent regardless of system volume (not that the dosing rate can’t change based on total volume, I personally haven’t seen this).
[EDIT] When I asked what you used to measure the dose, I meant what did you use to measure the volume that you were dosing? I could have been more clear with that question.
I am interested to see what Red Sea comes back with. I do see how you could be interpreting the chart to read how much to dose per 100l, but unless there is something going on chemically in the background that I am not seeing, it doesn’t make sense that the amount dosed per 100l changes based on total volume. Why would you need to dose 15ml per 100l to increase Fe to 0.15ppm in a 100l system, yet need to dose 30ml per 100l to increase Fe to 0.15ppm in a 200l system for a total dose of 60ml? That would be four times the dose to bring twice the volume to 0.15ppm, which would equate to double the dosing rate. With that logic, you could save a lot of money by removing most of your water and dosing in 5 gallon buckets before adding the water back to your aquarium.
Also, interpreting the chart the way you did, the line above the chart that staes 1ml/100l = 0.01ppm Fe means nothing as there would need to be a scaling factor for system volume. Between all of my dosing between my reef tank and freshwater aquariums, I haven’t come across anything that hasn’t been a consistent ratio between dose per unit volume regardless of system volume. There are some things that take a larger dose to bring the levels up to a given point, but once at that level, the dose per unit volume is consistent regardless of system volume (not that the dosing rate can’t change based on total volume, I personally haven’t seen this).
[EDIT] When I asked what you used to measure the dose, I meant what did you use to measure the volume that you were dosing? I could have been more clear with that question.
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simpleman
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this is what red sea posted in its faq
No, your test kit is not faulty.
The iron cycle is a very complex in the marine environment and it can be found in many chemicals forms, from free ions through inorganic and organic molecules up to large colloids connected to metals. This “soup” of chemicals increases the probability of spontaneous reactions, causing elements to spontaneously switch between phases.
These changes are enhanced and controlled by many factors such as salinity, pH but mostly by changes in alkalinity and the amount of organics and colloids in the water.
In a closed system such as an aquarium where there is often a high organic load and many dissolved organic colloids, the amount of free iron could be very small although the total iron could be very high. Usually this situation will lead to a darkening of the corals due to growth in the zooxanthellae population, and an outbreak of phytoplankton and other macro algae, even though you may measure zero levels of iron. On the other hand, in very pure saltwater most iron will be present as free-iron ions which can be toxic.
After a few minutes from the time you add the iron (Coral Colors C) to the aquarium you will probably measure levels around 0.05 ppm. This may last for several hours before it drops to zero (usually within 24 hrs). The reason for this is that the iron may have precipitated or bonded to organics substances.
The use of the Iron Test within Red Sea’s Coral Colors Test Kit will ensure that Iron is not over- dosed as long as the iron is still in free form. However the test will not detect iron which is not in its free form, and therefore a zero reading should be treated carefully as any overdose will cause stress to corals. i dose according to ca uptake
No, your test kit is not faulty.
The iron cycle is a very complex in the marine environment and it can be found in many chemicals forms, from free ions through inorganic and organic molecules up to large colloids connected to metals. This “soup” of chemicals increases the probability of spontaneous reactions, causing elements to spontaneously switch between phases.
These changes are enhanced and controlled by many factors such as salinity, pH but mostly by changes in alkalinity and the amount of organics and colloids in the water.
In a closed system such as an aquarium where there is often a high organic load and many dissolved organic colloids, the amount of free iron could be very small although the total iron could be very high. Usually this situation will lead to a darkening of the corals due to growth in the zooxanthellae population, and an outbreak of phytoplankton and other macro algae, even though you may measure zero levels of iron. On the other hand, in very pure saltwater most iron will be present as free-iron ions which can be toxic.
After a few minutes from the time you add the iron (Coral Colors C) to the aquarium you will probably measure levels around 0.05 ppm. This may last for several hours before it drops to zero (usually within 24 hrs). The reason for this is that the iron may have precipitated or bonded to organics substances.
The use of the Iron Test within Red Sea’s Coral Colors Test Kit will ensure that Iron is not over- dosed as long as the iron is still in free form. However the test will not detect iron which is not in its free form, and therefore a zero reading should be treated carefully as any overdose will cause stress to corals. i dose according to ca uptake
