Everything's Dying?!

[DiZASTiX]

New SPS frags in an otherwise basically empty tank dying. Kindly advise!! Thank you.

• Tank successfully cycled with only dry rock and dry sand after 21 days
• Now 30+ days in
• New frags (mostly SPS) have generally not fared well with with about a 30-40% survival rate over the first week of introduction
• Drip acclimated

Lighting

• Kessil A360W
• 7 hours high intensity
• 2 hours ramp up and down

Dips

• CoralRx
• MediCoral
• Betadine
• Dr G's

Water Parameters
Water pulled using manual pipette for accuracy whenever makes sense
Multiple tests conducted to ensure consistency

• Alkalinity (Hanna): 13.8
• Ammonia (API): 0
• Calcium (AquaForest): >500
• Magnesium (Red Sea): 1500
• Nitrate (API and Red Sea): 0
• Nitrite (API): 0
• Phosphate (Hanna, Low Range): 0
• Salinity (Milwaukee and Refractometer): 1.026
• pH (probe): 7.76; pH (API): 7.8

 

[hijinks7]

7 hours of high intensity is a lot of light depending where they are in the tank

 

[rtparty]

Too new of tank. Dry rock and dry sand has brought zero life to the tank. Alkalinity is too high. Zero nitrate and zero phosphate is also an issue.

Plan on a minimum of 12 months before your tank matures enough for serious SPS. You will need to add biodiversity yourself since the rock brought in none. You'll also need to make sure that diversity has food to eat by making sure you do NOT have zero nitrate and zero phosphate.

 

[Lninwa]

I’ve learned its best to wait for several months before adding sps. Your dkh is very high, I know Red Sea says to keep dkh high for coral growth but think they say to keep 10-12. Calcium and Mg are also on the high side. I’m not trying to beat you up just passing along knowledge I’ve learned from others. Coral need nutrients to grow meaning you need to have nitrates and phosphates in the tank. My nitrates are high at 25 so am doing more frequent water changes and am about to try Purigen. I use gfo to manage phosphates and mine are currently 0. Good luck

 

[sfin52]

Your tank is still very new. Phosphates need to be .5-1. Nitrate 5-10 ppm ph is also low.

I whould recommend holding off on fragile corals in such a new system.

 

[Robink]

Yes, tank not mature enough for sps. Wait till you have coralline algae before adding sps.

 

[DiZASTiX]

Thank you for the considerations provided thus far. I've three follow up questions:

1. So what is it specifically that the water contains when it's "mature?" Can that be temporarily added?
2. What's an immediately actionable emergency stop-gap measure to save the remaining SPS?
3. What can be done to increase pH? I've previously done Apex outlet -based kalk dosing, but it doesn't seem to be enough. Would either a higher concentration of kalk dosing help, or perhaps the use of a kalk reactor be preferable?

 

[Coralfuture]

The alk and high intensity lighting for 7hrs is rather high and likely the main causes of the issues...the other issues may be caused by other inhabitants and or what else may be going on in a tank that new. You likely still have the brown film algae on the sand bed I assume? Also your more likely to have too much light and kill than too little light and kill. SPS love flow too so what's that looking like in the tank? Also how large is the tank and where do you have those frags? A picture perhaps so that maybe we can better suggest a course of action for you?
As of right now based on what I do know I would suggest get the flow up and turn that high intensity way down to like 1-2hrs and make it a long ramp if you want lots of light period make it like a 3-4hr ramp.

Good luck keep us posted and welcome to the SPS side of reefing but said to hear your rough start based on what you've told us not sure if we can save them in time but we can try.

 

[Coralfuture]

So what is it specifically that the water contains when it's "mature?" Can that be temporarily added?

-Mainly beneficial bacteria that is actually primarily on the rockwork and helps to keep the water stable as fish poop and pee in the water all day or you add food to the tank which emulates the same process as it decays.

What's an immediately actionable emergency stop-gap measure to save the remaining SPS?

-Phone a friend; find a fellow reefer you can trust who has a lot of success and you can trust. (If not available I'm not sure there is an immediate cure for the issues but I would aim for my earlier suggestions)

What can be done to increase pH? I've previously done Apex outlet -based kalk dosing, but it doesn't seem to be enough. Would either a higher concentration of kalk dosing help, or perhaps the use of a kalk reactor be preferable?

- I would suggest stop aiming for an amount of pH....I don't test mine I don't monitor mine(yet I did just purchase an APEX tho that was for other reasons and happens to come with a PH probe) I have SPS growth and colors like crazy thogh I'm terrible at capturing it on camera. Don't go chasing numbers just aim to maintain something stable because nothing good happens fast in reefing especially with SPS. Maintain steady temp/salinity then try to get a steady lvl of nitrates/phosphates and then you can worry about keeping alk at a number which most aim for 8dkh so let it drop from its 13.8 a ways before you add ANYTHING else. Alk swings kill SPS not to be taken lightly

 

[SashimiTurtle]

It's not really what the water contains, its the rock. The rock has a large enough and balanced enough bacteria colony to keep the water parameters stable. That is the problem with starting a tank with dry rock. There is nothing in it. The amount of life from year plus old live rock is immeasurable. That is the difference in a new tank and one that has been up for a while. Start with some easier corals, once those are thriving and doing well you can add a few hardy SPS.

 

[Jeepguy242]

it took me years before i could keep acro's let alone grow them

 

[DiZASTiX]

Thanks again, all of you, and here are some responses that hopefully will better help paint the right picture:

• I can definitely lower this. I'm just a bit perplexed because my LFS keeps the same tank height as I do, with the same lighting, except his is on full blast all day the shop is open. I'll get details tomorrow.
• No brown algae, but there is a translucent film that covers many things. They look like translucent bed sheets. I've already begun lowered carbon dosing accordingly.
• The display tank is 2x2x1 ft^3, so roughly 30 gal. The return pump is a VarioS-6 at 100% (1720 gph), while the powerhead is a Tunze Turbelle Stream 6105 at 10% (700-3400 gph; so I estimate 970 gph).
• I regret failing to mention that there's a fairly substantial piece of CaribSea "dried live rock" in the display tank that's been there since inception. Hopefully that helped.
• Would acquiring and adding Dr Tim's or similar products help at this point? I would assume no simply because the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate already read 0.

pH:

Temperature:

 

[Jeepguy242]

why are you carbon dosing on a 21 day old tank?

 

[DiZASTiX]

Would you say that's the cause? The intention was to be able to add fish and inverts without nitrate swings. It's managed to do that much.

 

[Jeepguy242]

Would you say that's the cause? The intention was to be able to add fish and inverts without nitrate swings. It's managed to do that much.

fish can handle tons of nitrates... i have read some of the greatest reef keepers have had nitrates over 50... carbon dosing is for getting rid of problem algae..... and i dont mean the brown and green that happen when your tank is going through the ugly stage, i mean the tank is 3 years old and you can pull out a pound of GHA or byropsis by hand kind of algae.....


stop all dosing..... let your tank cycle and reach its balance by itself...

 

[elisa h]

Very high alk combined with very low nutrients will kill coral. I’d say that’s your main problem. Everything else will just take time. If you wanted to you could add a small piece of live rock from a trusted lfs to increase biodiversity.

 

[DiZASTiX]

I was at that point before--the problematic algae of all sorts; this is meant to preemptively stop that stage from occurring. The whole idea is to do everything before it happens this time around. That's why I ask: is it the cause of the SPS deaths? If not, then does it actually affect anything? It sounds like what you're saying is that it affects some kind of cycle that could occur. The tank already went thru some types of algae phases. Would preventing these phases from rearing their ugly heads cause severe detriment enough to cause death, or is it just not a good idea? The primary thing of concern to me is saving the SPS corals (and keeping the other corals alive, of course).

In some places, I've learnt that keeping things alive in poor situations sometimes involves maintaining status quo, while other times it involves slow changes in the ideal direction; and yet other times, what's needed is rapid, decisive action.

Immediate Changes:

• Lighting: The intensity graph can be adjusted
• Carbon: This has been reduced to a fractional amount of the original.

Long Term Changes:

• Increase Biodiversity

Need Further Advice:

• pH: I still don't know how to raise the pH without dosing something like Kalk. If there are suggestions, let me know. I intend to use the Balling Method once warranted.
• Alkalinity: I don't believe this is something that can be changed right now. Would consensus of the group be that I should not attempt to lower this, and instead, let it fall gradually? I do have faith in Red Sea's recommendation, but if this is too much over their recommendation, then it's too much.

 

[DiZASTiX]

Very high alk combined with very low nutrients will kill coral. I’d say that’s your main problem. Everything else will just take time. If you wanted to you could add a small piece of live rock from a trusted lfs to increase biodiversity.

Should I water change immediately, or let it fall naturally, given that there are corals and inverts living in the tank currently? I would be targeting Red Sea's high end of their recommended range for Alk.

Or, alternatively, I could attempt to generate nutrients (e.g., pure ammonia products--Wally is open 24/7).

 

[Jeepguy242]

honestly, i dont think your tank has cycled yet, and your carbon dosing is causing most of the problems...

you can't stop the ugly phase.... you got to go thru it

 

[rtparty]

First and foremost, SLOW DOWN.

You should not be dosing any carbon sources on a 21 day old tank.

Turn down your return pump. You want between 5-10x turnover in your sump. So 300gph or so. Then turn up your Tunze a little bit. 25-30x turnover is good for now in the display tank.

Go find some good live rock from a pest free source. There is nothing you can add from a bottle that can replace good, mature rock. Mature rock is so much more than nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria. There are pods, Coraline algae, sponges, and other micro fauna that are priceless. With a dead rock start, YOU have to add these things. If they only come from coral frags, it can take a very long time to mature. Go watch Mike Paletta's video where he updates his dry rock tank. It's on YouTube under American Reef Channel or something.

Don't chase pH too much. Open some windows or doors if you can. Adding a CO2 scrubber can also do wonders. It just gets pricey at $7/week to refill the media.

Do NOT dose pure ammonia. Find some Spectracide Stump Remover for nitrate. It MUST be Spectracide. It's pure potassium nitrate. There are threads all about it.

Order or find some Seachem Flourish Phosphorus. It will bump your phosphate levels. Go super slow here and be fully accepting that you WILL see algae, even hair algae. It's part of the process.