Everything's Dying?!

[DiZASTiX]

To me, maintaining an aquarium starting with only dry rock with no "seeding" of microfauna from anywhere is like balancing a ball bearing on a beachball. When something happens, there is nothing inherent in the tank that will fill a niche to bring things back in balance. The second you get a lot of nutrients in there, there will be a battle for them and things like GHA, Cyano and Dino's, which are all potentially in your tank right now, will likely dominate without competition. At that point, GHA is your friend since it's the easiest to control via a CUC. Having a large variety of microfauna can reduce the chances of Dinos and Cyano taking over the tank.

I've had live rock tanks for about 25 years now. For this one, I decided to start with exactly the same idea as you. Had dry rock, oversized skimmer, Chaeto and everything else before any other life was in there. Used ammonium chloride for "nutrients". It cycled fine and I started with fish to get it mature. Lots of battles with various plagues. Added live rock, and things settled down.

I completely understand and respect your decision to minimize the chance that pests are introduced. Probably the best alternative to ocean live rock is getting a rock chunk or 2 and some sand from a trusted source with a mature pest-free aquarium or maybe something like GARF grunge.

In a few years, the dry rock tank will settle in and be stable, with the ball bearing balancing beachball become a flat plane and eventually a self-stable bowl, but I think this is partially due to microfauna being introduced via coral and fish additions.

Agreed. It's a precarious way to enjoy the hobby, but it's nonetheless not outside the realm of possibility as a philosophy or methodology. It certainly would be easier to use live rock.

How would you ensure that even animals like bristleworms and flatworms are avoided? I suppose with a small enough piece of live rock, i can be dipped. The only constraint is that I never want to see a worm, spider, or anemone that I didn't put in there myself. What would the approach be?

 

[timnem70]

Agreed. It's a precarious way to enjoy the hobby, but it's nonetheless not outside the realm of possibility as a philosophy or methodology. It certainly would be easier to use live rock.

How would you ensure that even animals like bristleworms and flatworms are avoided? I suppose with a small enough piece of live rock, i can be dipped. The only constraint is that I never want to see a worm, spider, or anemone that I didn't put in there myself. What would the approach be?

Good luck with that. Think all people are saying is, slow your roll a bit. You will almost never find a tank without at least some pest. But, as you're trying to do, keep trying to be dilligent with that approach. Just remember, and it's been mentioned many times now, set yourself up for long term success by allowimg the system to mature, go through the "uglies" of algal blooms and maintain a consistent environment by monitoring and documenting your progress. Keep asking questions, heed warnings and use the forum to help you get back into the hobby.

 

[Rick Krejci]

...How would you ensure that even animals like bristleworms and flatworms are avoided? I suppose with a small enough piece of live rock, i can be dipped. The only constraint is that I never want to see a worm, spider, or anemone that I didn't put in there myself. What would the approach be?

The short answer is, you can't. But it's the same answer for putting frags in your tank. Did you dip and quarantine your corals for 76 days to prevent diseases like ich from getting in your tank? And even with that, you are still eventually likely going to introduce pests and possibly aiptasia with a frag, especially if it was from a store with any of these in any of the tanks. If there's a cell or 2 of aiptasia on the frag, it can grow.

If you get your stuff from a seemingly clean source, it can minimize the chances. But if they have a copperband or peppermint shrimp to control aiptasia, it may still be present in their system/frag, just not visible.

I personally enjoy discovering something I've never seen before. I probably enjoyed the tank as much during a 6 week fallow period, with pods and stuff crawling everywhere as I did with fish. Amazing to see the life in there when no predators are present.

 

[homer1475]

I personally enjoy discovering something I've never seen before. I probably enjoyed the tank as much during a 6 week fallow period, with pods and stuff crawling everywhere as I did with fish. Amazing to see the life in there when no predators are present.

Going through this right now, and I totally agree. The life I see now that there is no predators in the tank amazes me. I actually enjoy looking for and finding new things in the tank again. Almost like when you first started.

 

[scott11106]

Hello,

Reading through your thread, raised some flags. This forum has tons of lovely people and they all have amazing knowledge. 90% of them have already pointed out, the potential issues and problems, and or why your having said problems.

My advice is that, this is an ecosystem and it’s life, you have to allow it to become its own system. In this hobby, it’s a very sensitive system, and the more you mess with it, well the more you can harm it. In this hobby almost everything we do is a possible risk. Having this idea that just because you used dry rock or sand etc will prevent something is not ideal. This is life and it will find away to thrive one way or another.

From my experience, and from reading from others most people don’t put coral in at least until their tank has fully completed all three blooms, clean up crew has been in for two weeks, and then possibly a test fish for a week or two. Then usually after about 6-8 weeks maybe a soft coral, or a very hardy lps. Most do not jump into sps, right away, unless maybe it’s a tank transfer etc.

There is a saying, if it’s not broke don’t fix it. There is never any harm in trying new things, but trying new things and losing life because of it, is never a good idea. My honest suggestion would be to literally take your sps out of your tank. Go back to your lfs, have them keep it in their stable display tank, or a tank which ever.

Once your tank, has cycled, is stable and has the basic needs to sustain life, then start with your clean up crew. After two weeks test your water, (have your lfs test it, they have more experience doing this), see which fish you could place in it, that you will want to keep and enjoy. Dropping a 100 dollar fish in there, probably isn’t the best idea, but again this is your tank. After you select your fish(s) and they are doing fine, then maybe start with a soft coral, or even an lps. Then after a month or more maybe move your sps back into it.

This is a very slow moving hobby, it is and it can be hard to understand that. But it’s not fun when you lose a fish or coral, it’s not pleasant at all. I highly suggest you just stop dosing let Mother Nature do her job. Remember you have a small tank, the parameters will swing way worse than say a 90, or 125, or even like mine a 240. Remember there are always risks when it comes to these ecosystems, trying to eliminate them all will drive you crazy.

This is the best place for advice and help, we all love to help you and do what we can. The only thing we can’t control is if you do not follow our advice. We have all made mistakes, and we lol like me still make the same one. The biggest mistake I had to learn at the beginning was leaving it alone. The more you mess with it, the more you break it.

I really hope things turn out very well, and that you stick with it and keep going. You may have a rough road ahead, and you may not, but given either I still hope to see your tank thriving, and we def wanna see pics of how it’s doing.
Also your lights should be on nothing but acclimation right now. Remember just because your friend, or lfs, has their lights at 100%, and their tank is simply amazing, doesn’t mean you can. You have two completely separate ecosystems, they are similar but different, like earth and mars. Your lfs tank is earth, and right now your tank is mars. We want to colonize your mars tank to be like earth.

Sincerely
Sarah

very well stated and i agree with this detailed review, i would also like a couple pictures to see what things are looking like if you dont mind

 

[rtparty]

Agreed. It's a precarious way to enjoy the hobby, but it's nonetheless not outside the realm of possibility as a philosophy or methodology. It certainly would be easier to use live rock.

How would you ensure that even animals like bristleworms and flatworms are avoided? I suppose with a small enough piece of live rock, i can be dipped. The only constraint is that I never want to see a worm, spider, or anemone that I didn't put in there myself. What would the approach be?

Did you ever see Jurassic Park, the first one?

If so, remember when Ian Malcom (Jeff Goldblum) says, "Life finds a way." That is completely true for our tanks. No matter how much we want to play creator, life will find a way in our little systems. It only takes one microscopic cell that can't be dipped/killed and now it's in your tank. If left unchecked, it will become the dominating force.

 

[sfin52]

 

[DiZASTiX]

Did you ever see Jurassic Park, the first one?

If so, remember when Ian Malcom (Jeff Goldblum) says, "Life finds a way." That is completely true for our tanks. No matter how much we want to play creator, life will find a way in our little systems. It only takes one microscopic cell that can't be dipped/killed and now it's in your tank. If left unchecked, it will become the dominating force.

Is it correct under your logic to make the inference that we shouldn't dip or quarantine, because life finds a way in anyway?

 

[rtparty]

Is it correct under your logic to make the inference that we shouldn't dip or quarantine, because life finds a way in anyway?

Don't go that far. I dip every coral and search everything thoroughly before it goes in the tank. I also have found reputable places I can trust iver the years.

What I mean by my above statement is that hair algae will make it in your tank. Cyano will show up. Dinos may even show up at some point. You will eventually find an aptasia or two. It WILL happen and it is OKAY.