Explain the difference between Kessel AP700 and Black box Diodes please

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Its fun buying the same cheap light over and over and over again. It's a lesson one has to learn in the hobby and in life. Buying cheap will only cost you twice as much in the long term.
 
ReefBot Lab, Automated Water Tester
Price doesn't necessarily equate to performance. I tend to choose equipment with longevity and customer support. I'd like that to be the less expensive option but it traditionally isn't :)
 
Tidal Gardens
Reef kid- it's a waste of time trying to convince people they are good lights. Especially when they have dropped a considerable chunk of change on the the "higher end" lights. I run SB reef lights and had GalaxyHydro before that and they grow corals very well and have great color AND there is considerable difference between the SB and the GH. I have not had any problems with either light.

I do not dispute that they are from the same factories pumping out different configurations though. That's why it's nice the SB has a 2 year USA warranty and top notch customer service if it is needed.

There are plenty of tanks running black boxes with great results out there. There is not reason to try and convince the big spenders.
 
happyhourhero said:
Reef kid- it's a waste of time trying to convince people they are good lights. Especially when they have dropped a considerable chunk of change on the the "higher end" lights. I run SB reef lights and had GalaxyHydro before that and they grow corals very well and have great color AND there is considerable difference between the SB and the GH. I have not had any problems with either light.

I do not dispute that they are from the same factories pumping out different configurations though. That's why it's nice the SB has a 2 year USA warranty and top notch customer service if it is needed.

There are plenty of tanks running black boxes with great results out there. There is not reason to try and convince the big spenders.
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Was just about to say something similar, it is very true.
 
I didn't mean to start this thread to bash black boxes. That's all I've ever used since compact fluorescents. My frustration is paying good money and not having the lights last more than a year before losing par and eventually burning out completely. It's not just OR, it happens to a lot of them. I also reef on a budget and can't really afford $900 a fixture. My purpose was to try and find the dividing line between lights that would last at least 5 years and those that don't last 18 months.
 
Chewy.com
LostInTheDark said:
I didn't mean to start this thread to bash black boxes. That's all I've ever used since compact fluorescents. My frustration is paying good money and not having the lights last more than a year before losing par and eventually burning out completely. It's not just OR, it happens to a lot of them. I also reef on a budget and can't really afford $900 a fixture. My purpose was to try and find the dividing line between lights that would last at least 5 years and those that don't last 18 months.
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You have been great, your problem is understandable. We are just frustrated with people who hate them yet have never used them and are making accusations with no evidence. Sorry this is what your thread became.
 
LostInTheDark said:
I didn't mean to start this thread to bash black boxes. That's all I've ever used since compact fluorescents. My frustration is paying good money and not having the lights last more than a year before losing par and eventually burning out completely. It's not just OR, it happens to a lot of them. I also reef on a budget and can't really afford $900 a fixture. My purpose was to try and find the dividing line between lights that would last at least 5 years and those that don't last 18 months.
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You basically answered your own question. Buy cheap, spend twice as much long term. I was once like you and learned my lesson long ago. Buy quality and you will not have to spend another dime. Nowadays with so many options out there you can get quality stuff and not pay an arm at a leg. I do almost 100% of my reef equipment shopping during black friday week. Why? Because it's the one time of the year the really premium stuff goes on sale. I don't buy anything all year and just save all my reef spending money and pool it for that time. Now as for the lighting, I am not sure how big your tank is but LED is not the only option. Unless you have a very tiny tank, LED is not the cost effective option everyone tries to make it out to be. I have been there and done that and made my own light fixtures with cheap and expensive diodes.

For example you can light a standard tank that is 36" long, and 24" wide with an 8x24 Sunpower. Got a 48" long one? An 8x39 will do just fine. They come up on the ATI thread as scratch and dent all the time for 25% off. As for bulbs if you wait for the sales you can buy all the bulbs you need to last you at least a year for ~$120. If you take into account the fact that your chinese black boxes barely last you 1.5-2 years you would be surprised to find that you would be breaking even or even come out slight ahead with the ATI option. Plus you will get growth and color on your tank that you could only dream of with the black boxes.
 
I have Kessil 160, 350, and was about to buy a AP700. Love Kessil! Came across someone using black box and was so impressed I went out and got a black box! If it works it works?

If current was told by the reefer it should last 2 years. Even if only last a year I'm still ahead of the game spending $89.99 no tax and free shipping.
Also heard black box parts are cheap/easy to work on.

Again I love my Kessils for the design, type of blue/full spectrum it puts out, and their customer service.

I can also see how the black box is good for the hobby by letting people get into the hobby without spending a fortune and hopefully minamizing one of the many veriables to help successed and not fustrate them to the point of quiting.
 
ReefBot Lab, Automated Water Tester
While a black box will let people get into the hobby. That may not have the money to buy the nicer fixture. There will always be money issues for those that can not afford the hobby. I had money issues when I started in the hobby over 30 years ago. I made everything on my tank. Could not afford the nice wet/dry filters that Albert Theil's company sold had to make things out of found parts. While I was able to keep a tank going it was not an easy task and I spent a lot of my time trying to figure out how to make or design something that if a had a few more dollars I could have afforded.
Once I realized that I could make something almost worked but was a lot of trouble all the time keeping it working and how that was not a great thing.
I started watching my spending and saving money to only buy the best pieces of equipment and buying from companies that did support their products. I have seen so so many companies come and go in the hobby. Every time I go to MACNA I see new companies and remember others that are not in business anymore.
You learn what companies are going to be around and spend money on their products and not on junk that will not be around in a year or have to be repaired by yourself.
 
reefwiser said:
While a black box will let people get into the hobby. That may not have the money to buy the nicer fixture. There will always be money issues for those that can not afford the hobby. I had money issues when I started in the hobby over 30 years ago. I made everything on my tank. Could not afford the nice wet/dry filters that Albert Theil's company sold had to make things out of found parts. While I was able to keep a tank going it was not an easy task and I spent a lot of my time trying to figure out how to make or design something that if a had a few more dollars I could have afforded.
Once I realized that I could make something almost worked but was a lot of trouble all the time keeping it working and how that was not a great thing.
I started watching my spending and saving money to only buy the best pieces of equipment and buying from companies that did support their products. I have seen so so many companies come and go in the hobby. Every time I go to MACNA I see new companies and remember others that are not in business anymore.
You learn what companies are going to be around and spend money on their products and not on junk that will not be around in a year or have to be repaired by yourself.
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Except they grow and color corals quite well so its not like it's some struggle for someone to limp on with a measly black box. It's hilarious how condescending people are about black boxes. Now running black boxes = living in poverty. Got it.
 
happyhourhero said:
Except they grow and color corals quite well so its not like it's some struggle for someone to limp on with a measly black box. It's hilarious how condescending people are about black boxes. Now running black boxes = living in poverty. Got it.
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My read is that @reefwiser is relating his experience, which I'll say mirrors mine, that some things may cost less in cash but cost more of your time. For me, I spent a heck of a lot of time keeping my old DIY stuff functioning the way I wanted it to. At the time, I didn't care but I do now that I'm a father. My time is more valuable to me than the extra cash now. My current tank has minimal DIY and I don't have to touch it, I like that. I don't think any of the comments should be interpreted as bashing a user of an "off-label" product. The original question is what is the difference between this fixture and a Kessil. The answer is simply: build quality and service/support after the sale.

What more is there to say?
 
Tidal Gardens
I don't own a black box but my LFS has 2 on his frag tank for 2 years now and still running, not for or against any light that has worked, if it works it works regardless of price. I will end up with a Kessil eventually but just need a light for the first year to get started.
 
Like I tried to convey I have had cheap stuff even have the back boxes in my stack of lighting systems I have purchased. Not using them because I found I wanted more out of my lights that the back boxes could not give me. Like adjusting intensity over the coarse of a day changing spectrum over the coarse of a day back an forth. Syncing with my powerheads to give me more randomness to my tank and work with night mode. As I learn more about corals I wanted to do more to mimic their natural environment. Cheap is not flexible enough for my current state of understanding of coral health requirements.
 
To me the difference is in the design and the color. Kessil is more concentrated and the blue is like no other while the black box has different kind of blue with less shimmer but more spread due to layout of diodes.
 
Top Shelf Aquatics
I have kessils too and black boxes and MH and t5 and Ecotech. :) Having kept this stuff for so long I have used everything and been given everything to try or figure out how to use them. Like I have said before there is always one one who loves something but has never tried something else. Like when my daugther was little and all she liked was Mickey D's chicken nuggets no matter what we tried to do.
 
I not only have used but know a boat load of people who still use them...they work fine for the money...I just know that they are cheap and Will eventually fail sooner than later...never called them or the companies that sell them crap. There are many many better options out there...single diode leds are going to be a thing of the past soon...if spaced too far apart as most are they crate disco effect, also most do not have a good full spectrum of light
 
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