For those that don't quarantine fish or corals.....mitigation?

[Sea MunnKey]

My last acquisition was a pair of African Blue Striped pipefish from a few months back. Basically released them into my system right after purchase as lfs was pretty close to home.

They've fatten up and swimming around & always searching for pods. Feeding almost daily with ESV Dried Phytoplankton. Soak the dried content with system water for 5 - 10 minutes and then pour entire content in system.

 

[SMB]

When I saw the title of this thread I was very interested as I’m not in a position to QT my fish in a separate system where I can treat. Unfortunately the thread has turned into a back and forth debate that, whilst interesting, does not necessarily belong here so please if you are advocating QT can you please start a new thread. This thread is about NOT using QT.

My LFS does QT and make sure fish are healthy and eating though. They also collect their own fish directly from the ocean (West Oz).

So since I’m not going to QT I have some ideas for mitigation:
1. I have set up with fresh LR
2. Will be using mostly NSW
3. I will be collecting sea lettuce and mussels from the ocean to feed fresh to my fish weekly (keep fresh in the sump)
4. Feed the highest quality pellets
5. Keep water quality as if for SPS at all times regardless. The idea that water quality is not as important for fish as for SPS is not good practice IMO
6. My fish will be in an observation tank that sits inside the display, allowing old fish to view and familiarise as well as the new fish can get used to the same water and I can remove easily if needed. This would also be beneficial is scent is important too.

With my previous tanks I have always had success just acclimating and putting straight in. I then tried QT because I felt it would be better practice just in case (using the Advanced Aquarist method) and all of these fish fell ill so I’m not keen on this. I’m not against it for others, whatever works for you.

I would appreciate it if people would critique and provide feedback for my above listed ‘methods for attempting to mitigate disease through strengthening the immune system’.

Cheers

I think both sides have been discussed and I don't see why one has to be in one camp or the other.
If you have a long trusted source for your fish and have done well without QT, that's fine with me. If you have concerns about the quality of the fish, it's behavior or appearance then observation in an isolated system might be prudent. Personally I don't think the second case needs immediate drug therapy but rather, as you mention a good water set up and excellent nutrition. This gives the fish a chance to gain weight and get used to ones feeding routine. By bringing the fish to prime shape it will be in the best position to transition into the DT.

As to your list, I was wondering about your source of mussels. Since they are filter feeders, they could have many water contaminants, such as heavy metals etc. Not sure of the science and I guess there is little difference between a fresh mussel and those that are in processed frozen fish foods in terms of contaminants.

 

[Jase4224]

I think both sides have been discussed and I don't see why one has to be in one camp or the other.
If you have a long trusted source for your fish and have done well without QT, that's fine with me. If you have concerns about the quality of the fish, it's behavior or appearance then observation in an isolated system might be prudent. Personally I don't think the second case needs immediate drug therapy but rather, as you mention a good water set up and excellent nutrition. This gives the fish a chance to gain weight and get used to ones feeding routine. By bringing the fish to prime shape it will be in the best position to transition into the DT.

As to your list, I was wondering about your source of mussels. Since they are filter feeders, they could have many water contaminants, such as heavy metals etc. Not sure of the science and I guess there is little difference between a fresh mussel and those that are in processed frozen fish foods in terms of contaminants.

I also don’t know why people take such rigid ideologies, different methods work for different people. I’m receiving fish that have been hand collected by the people I’m buying from so the supply chain is very short. Of course some fish I want come from other parts of the world so my LFS will keep them longer and watch them for me.

Yeah I wander about the mussels too, boats do pull up to the jetty. The jetty is on an inlet of a large estuary so a huge amount of fresh seawater is drawn through twice a day with the tide. I collect my water just before high tide. I honestly don’t know if they are contaminated either but there is an incredible amount of sea life there that is thriving. The boat traffic would be considered light at the most.

 

[Paul B]

Filter feeding shellfish do have heavy metals in them as trace elements and the fish need those trace elements. I have been feeding clams for decades and my fish are all smiling and spawning. If the shellfish are fine for human consumption, they should be fine for your fish.
Some shellfish such as mussels are not safe to eat for us or our fish and those are not sold for humans, but may be sold for fish food which is why I buy that stuff in a people seafood market. I eat some, and give some to the fish. But I eat most of them myself.

 

[SinCityRee4r]

Filter feeding shellfish do have heavy metals in them as trace elements and the fish need those trace elements. I have been feeding clams for decades and my fish are all smiling and spawning. If the shellfish are fine for human consumption, they should be fine for your fish.
Some shellfish such as mussels are not safe to eat for us or our fish and those are not sold for humans, but may be sold for fish food which is why I buy that stuff in a people seafood market. I eat some, and give some to the fish. But I eat most of them myself.

Paul we all know you do not QT lol! I feed fresh clams also as you had recommended years back. good gut bacteria to build up immunity. I don’t know of anyone who would not like fresh seafood. Of course unless they were allergic to shellfish [emoji23]

 

[Jase4224]

Filter feeding shellfish do have heavy metals in them as trace elements and the fish need those trace elements. I have been feeding clams for decades and my fish are all smiling and spawning. If the shellfish are fine for human consumption, they should be fine for your fish.
Some shellfish such as mussels are not safe to eat for us or our fish and those are not sold for humans, but may be sold for fish food which is why I buy that stuff in a people seafood market. I eat some, and give some to the fish. But I eat most of them myself.

Why would mussels be unsafe for us or fish to consume?

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Filter feeding shellfish do have heavy metals in them as trace elements and the fish need those trace elements. I have been feeding clams for decades and my fish are all smiling and spawning. If the shellfish are fine for human consumption, they should be fine for your fish.
Some shellfish such as mussels are not safe to eat for us or our fish and those are not sold for humans, but may be sold for fish food which is why I buy that stuff in a people seafood market. I eat some, and give some to the fish. But I eat most of them myself.

So you are a filter feeder just protecting your fish from heavy metals....got it!

 

[Skep18]

I quarantine everything and have never lost a fish that has made it to my DT. No DT fish has ever shown signs of disease or anything. I have lost fish in QT to brook and other issues shortly after arrival.

 

[Paul B]

Why would mussels be unsafe for us or fish to consume?

The shellfish beds where they are collected are sometimes contaminated with harmful bacteria or red tide. At those times they are not sold and should not be eaten. The waters are tested constantly for pollution

 

[Mastiffsrule]

I’m putting my mitigate to the test. Most my group 5 plus years, some 10. I threw in some anthias and chromis before Christmas just to jazz it up a bit. They were not QTd

I am getting bad aptaia, so I got a file fish Saturday from a LFS. There were definitely sick fish present in the system. I got him and black worms. I was about to start a WC before I went out and found him. I got him home, opened up the bag and poured a little tank water in, not match, just to start the temp and salinity adjustments. After I was almost done the WC I floated the bag. It was an hour and a half later. I did a little more water transfer and let him float. I walked away and some how the bag overturned into the tank. So I got a fish and bonus LSF water. We will see how he does. He’s eating mysis and some krill. He did not go for clams last night. Will try again tonight.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

And i was so focuses on the file I threw my black worms out by accident. Dang

 

[Lasse]

I quarantine everything and have never lost a fish that has made it to my DT

The obvoius question is now - do you use chemical prophylactic treatment and how manny fish have you lost during QT. If you only use observing QT - how many have you need to treat because of disease indications?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Millopolis]

I know I’ll never keep all of the parasites and pests out so this tank I set up a huge 80 watt high output pentair UV. I’m hoping this will keep any parasitesin the system below infestation levels

 

[Skep18]

The obvoius question is now - do you use chemical prophylactic treatment and how manny fish have you lost during QT. If you only use observing QT - how many have you need to treat because of disease indications?

Sincerely Lasse

I do treat prophylacticly with chemicals. Idk exactly how many I've lost but in full disclosure, it's at least been a couple batches. It seems it's usually due to an aggressive incoming parasite or disease, etc. that moves quickly in a confined setting. I can't say I've had solid evidence suggesting I've had incoming fish with visible symptoms that I've saved using medication either. I just treat following the mindset that it may defeat issues before they become visible.

Also, to be fair, my priority is my DT livestock. Not to say I have no regard for incoming fish but if someone felt some kind of way about the exposure of fish to medication, I could understand a different opinion.

 

[Lasse]

The shellfish beds where they are collected are sometimes contaminated with harmful bacteria or red tide. At those times they are not sold and should not be eaten. The waters are tested constantly for pollution

I remember the times in the ealy 80:ties when a friend of mine had one of the first factories in Sweden for processing the blue mussel. At that time - the only way to know if the mussels was contamined or not was that some of the workers (they get extra pay) eat some portions of the newly harvested mussels in the morning - if they was not sick in the end of the day - that batch was good

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Paul B]

The obvoius question is now - do you use chemical prophylactic treatment and how manny fish have you lost during QT. If you only use observing QT - how many have you need to treat because of disease indications?

Sincerely Lasse

The other obvious question is "How long is Never?".
Never is a long time. I don't quarantine and have not lost a fish to disease in over 35 years. Maybe 40, I forget. I am not sure how long "never" is but that could be anywhere from when Noah was in Home Depot buying wood for his boat to last Tuesday about 2:00 or 2:15 in the afternoon.

A lot of people here use the term "never" or I have not lost a fish all my life or since I was a kid. If you are 8 years old, that doesn't mean much but if you are a Geezer with nose hairs, it holds more water. It's like we say, I have had "Great Success" keeping a clownfish. Well, clownfish live to over 30 years old so if you kept it for 4 or 5 years, that is not great anything. It's nice, OK, somewhat successful, fine, cool, Snazzy or even OMG the thing is still living, but Great Success with a Human would be maybe 85 or 90 years old. If we croak when we are 5 or 6 years old, that isn't too good, certainly not Great Success. I think we need to add years to our posts, or at least weeks. Just my opinion of course and I am a Geezer with PTSD so if I offended anyone, you will just have to send me a nasty letter in a self addressed, stamped envelope where I will steam off the stamp and ignore the letter.

 

[Skep18]

I apologize if I've given an impression with my comment. I only meant to give my two cents. I'm not here to say anyone is right or wrong. To each their own.

For me forever is only maybe a year and a half. Not long.

 

[Paul B]

Skep18. There is almost never a need to apologize here to anyone about anything, especially if you are being respectful. I have to apologize all the time because I am sure I offend people all the time. It's an Old thing and as we age, we lost our filter and blurt out all sorts of things before thinking about it. I get in trouble all the time but it is what it is.
Nice to meet you by the way.
Oh, and I have socks longer than that.

 

[Lasse]

I apologize if I've given an impression with my comment. I only meant to give my two cents. I'm not here to say anyone is right or wrong. To each their own.

For me forever is only maybe a year and a half. Not long.

You do not need to apologize at all - I was truly interested to know how many you lost during the QT or how many you have had to treat if you run an observation QT protocol.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[whitesand]

Nice freaking tank. I don't qt. I've been lucky somewhat. I've had ick take out many a powder blue Tang fish. I don't treat. My motto is if they make it, I'm good to roll. I've had a pair of clowns, goby, pygmy angel, 3 blue chromis, snowflake eels that have survived and thrived thru numerous bouts of ick from trying to get powder blue tangs to make it. I gave up on powder blues and just added a bi color ange today. I worry but alas I'm a Coral person. I don't qt Coral either. Plop and drop. Been in hobby many years. The plop and drop on corals works for me. Acclimate fish fast then dump in net and in tank. Strong will survive and thrive. Blessed no m/v. So blessed.