Getting upset, don't know what I am missing here. Please help

[Naiad]

Mix up a new batch of saltwater and test it. Make sure your wc are not doing harm. It is rare but can happen. Then stop chasing numbers with dosing. Your tank needs to reach equilibrium again. Spiking and crashing lvls by dosing is stressing the corals.

 

[brandon429]

Consider this point


Based on your pics your algae can be permanently beaten independent of nutrients because of specifics in your pics, with or without gfo, and that makes your corals easier to save or boost now that the two are separate actions, formerly conjoined
some pic details here include:

I can't see any algae. Compared to forested tanks I sent ya.

Where it does grow its spotty and not full coverage, or we'd see some, true nutrient issues show clear eutrophication which isn't spotty but blanketing.

Low fish bioload per pics, great.

coralline that isn't bleached and is thick on live rock. so we know your last several mos alk and ca haven't been below calcification par even if they seem to be now. Water changes and feeding will fix ya, tinker with nutrients and detailed alk and calcium levels later on. These corals shown do not have a high demand they want feed more than they want ion detailing. In my opinion


Algae is optional in every reef tank in the world, you just spot kill it using certain techniques then it stops if you aren't importing it back in on frags.

That which is dead cannot be there. We don't avoid spot killing in the name of finding the 'cause' unless a world full of algae wrecked tanks is what we want and definitely have across forums. The goal is to be so good at prevention that you don't need spot killing but spot killing saves tanks where prevention couldn't.


the cause of minor algae is elusive to many, a snipe in the night, seems easily commanded by those who found the cause in their tanks much earlier it always seemed to me. I've seen and documented in threads people chasing nutrients for up to three years to no avail, and the being algae free after a brief spot kill and not much grow back, an end to the years of chasing by being deliberate.


Team we got him to two pages in ten mins that's feedback rock and roll and quite speedy of us.

 

[RareEarthCorals]

Wow, a lot of stuff but what is the answer. Whatever action you take do it one at a time. Simplest process first. Then relax and breath. This isnt the end all be all. You can enjoy the hobby but can you endure the hardship? Test your metal and hold strong. Imagine if $50 dollar product could have been the answer to thousands of dollars of loss. Take it one at a time and eliminate the easiest problems first.

 

[certain_code]

Wow! Incredible responses for everyone. You guys and girls are the reason I stick to this hobby I think haha.

Plan of attack so far, each step going to wait a few weeks between each and closely monitor everything before going to the next. I will do bi weekly water changes of 10 gallons and test the essentials to be sure salt isn't throwing things off. Order of changes:

1. Get Mag back up to 1350 or so. Slow dripping to raise 100ppm now.

2. Cut lights to 8 hours a day. Start with 2 if full on hours and work my way up to around 6 full over the course of a few months.

3. Raise Calc slowly to accepted range again without changing dosing schedule.

I will document changes on AL and here to help others facing frustrations like me. Hopefully this helps others too but keep the tips coming. It's certainly not a terrible looking tank but I feel like I'm throwing money down the drain and the tank is no where near its potential. Slow and steady I go!

I am also thinking of getting a new sump. Mainly because my current one was victim to calcification and is smaller than what is like for the larger tank. I'm sure it wont help keep things stable but I'm thinking a clean and maintained sumo could help.

 

[evolved]

Currently I am dosing 100ml of alk and 120 ml of cal daily with only about 10 living coral frags. This just seems crazy to me.

You're also way overdosing. By doing so, you're causing precipitation and making your levels artificially drop. Then you test and it looks like you're not adding enough, so you add more - which just aggravates the problem.

Stop dosing for now. Get Mg stable. THEN test for several days in a row and figure out what your Alk/Ca consumption really is and start the daily dosing over. With what I see in the tank, I'd be very surprised if you need to dose more than 30ml/day.

 

[TheEngineer]

You're also way overdosing. By doing so, you're causing precipitation and making your levels artificially drop. Then you test and it looks like you're not adding enough, so you add more - which just aggravates the problem.

Stop dosing for now. Get Mg stable. THEN test for several days in a row and figure out what your Alk/Ca consumption really is and start the daily dosing over. With what I see in the tank, I'd be very surprised if you need to dose more than 30ml/day.

^--- This. I'd stop all dosing. People get into a vicious cycle of chasing parameters and wind up with 15 dosing containers and their tank just gets worse. It's natural to try and fix something when you see it off. Others have said it, but it is worth reiterating, the corals you have in there shouldn't require you to dose. Regular water changes should be all you need to maintain your levels. Can I ask why you started dosing in the first place?

 

[Mike in CT]

Like everyone says, you probably don't need to dose anything, just making it more complicated then it needs to be for you right now. Also,your tank is still very young right now and will go through temper tantrums until it ages a bit more, and you learn a little more and it will all come together! I know its hard seeing a lot of fantastic tanks on here, but remember just about everyone has gone through what you are.

 

[certain_code]

You're also way overdosing. By doing so, you're causing precipitation and making your levels artificially drop. Then you test and it looks like you're not adding enough, so you add more - which just aggravates the problem.

Stop dosing for now. Get Mg stable. THEN test for several days in a row and figure out what your Alk/Ca consumption really is and start the daily dosing over. With what I see in the tank, I'd be very surprised if you need to dose more than 30ml/day.

I've always been confused by how to start again after stopping. I can stop dosing today with my pumps and start testing. When I get my Mag to where it should be then I just monitor Cal and Alk over a few days? For example, if I measure 3 days of alk and cal dropping a certain amount do I then just take an average of total depletion divided by the 3 days it has been?

How long should I let the tank go and how often should I test before starting dosing again? Is there a "sign" that points to when it would be okay to dose again?

^--- This. I'd stop all dosing. People get into a vicious cycle of chasing parameters and wind up with 15 dosing containers and their tank just gets worse. It's natural to try and fix something when you see it off. Others have said it, but it is worth reiterating, the corals you have in there shouldn't require you to dose. Regular water changes should be all you need to maintain your levels. Can I ask why you started dosing in the first place?

What is a "regular" water change in your eyes then? I have been doing 10 gallon changes (~10% tank volume) every 2 weeks but at that rate I am worried it is going to a pain more than anything.

I started dosing after measuring both low levels of Cal and Alk even after water changes when I first started the tank. Outside of a calcium reactor, which I don't have space for really, dosing only seemed logical. What you are saying about vicious cycles makes sense and it seems like that is the exact point I am at now.

Like everyone says, you probably don't need to dose anything, just making it more complicated then it needs to be for you right now. Also,your tank is still very young right now and will go through temper tantrums until it ages a bit more, and you learn a little more and it will all come together! I know its hard seeing a lot of fantastic tanks on here, but remember just about everyone has gone through what you are.

Thanks for the support! I always have assumed young tank syndrome and going through the standard motions but just have a hard time knowing where to go and what to do. There is such an overload of content online about issues and crashing tanks that it is hard to find the exact situations one might be in and compare.

 

[Jimbo662]

Are you using the standard GFO or the high capacity? I was talked into getting the high capacity not realizing what it would do. It stripped everything out of the water and I started loosing corals. Once I turned it off and fed heavily for about a week I started seeing them responding, at least those that didn't completely die.

 

[certain_code]

Are you using the standard GFO or the high capacity? I was talked into getting the high capacity not realizing what it would do. It stripped everything out of the water and I started loosing corals. Once I turned it off and fed heavily for about a week I started seeing them responding, at least those that didn't completely die.

Regular grade GFO from BulkReefSupply.com I did think this but since I also have algae issues I assume my tank is certainly not low on nutrients.

 

[brandon429]

Its not accurate to react to low lying algae growth as a nutrient issue that requires GFO. had mentioned above about it being too harsh for many systems and how algae finds nutrients for growth even still in the best waters on earth.

low level algae growth means conditions are good for corals. by reversing that automatically its easy to see why some corals decline, we've been instructed incorrectly about what low lying algae means, its positive and with grazing in your tank its most likely your corals would have never declined nor to use gfo.

the number of tanks on gfo with coral problems is outstanding.

GFO is for marked problems, you have merely a no grazer problem and no nutrient issues. We can link many tanks of the month right here that have higher po4 and no3 and no algae, for specific reasons. nutrient chasing to fight algae is not the best way for sure, your corals show why.


I for sure do not think your tank is crashing, you have hungry corals. The ecosystem itself shows signs of calcification, typical low level algae growth that grazers, and only grazers control in the wild, and good quality live rock not covered in any invader. coralline+
that's real ocean rock it appears and could be hundreds of years old before your tank. the reef is healthy, and the algae implies nothing other than pure balance. it does not imply a need for nutrient chasing/ although its ok to do as long as you comp feed for having done it in a tank with less than ideal mass addition to corals.

corals in an aquarium do today what we inflict in their environment 3 mos ago and sustain, if we know that time frame then we can make change X and sustain it for three mos to get a total opposite outcome now.

* Corals want to eat and take on mass when you add sw and light, and then as aquarists we begin to add things in the middle that stop that at times, its never arbitrary and always reversible

your opposites are target feeding of todays best refrigerated and frozen feeds, and water change actually to the point of sustained work, since work is guaranteed to fix any tank and nonwork is what we do when its in great condition/coral mass

you should do more than your planned water changes, so that you can feed more and dose less, its worth the work. its guaranteed to fix your tank.

Regarding the dosing, we're saying if you put your test kits away and disregard the flux, and change more than what you have scheduled your corals will be fine. I can link amazing professional tanks of the month any second taken off google that run instant ocean only, no dosing, and that's the calcium and alk ranges you report.

The level of tinkering you are doing is upper 20% tier of reefing, and plenty is done within the 80% who do not own test kits other than a swingarm hydrometer and a thermometer

 

[certain_code]

Its not accurate to react to low lying algae growth as a nutrient issue that requires GFO. had mentioned above about it being too harsh for many systems and how algae finds nutrients for growth even still in the best waters on earth.

low level algae growth means conditions are good for corals

GFO is for marked problems, you have merely a no grazer problem and no nutrient issues. We can link many tanks of the month right here that have higher po4 and no3 and no algae, for specific reasons. nutrient chasing to fight algae is not the best way for sure, your corals show why.


I for sure do not think your tank is crashing, you have hungry corals. The ecosystem itself shows signs of calcification, typical low level algae growth that grazers, and only grazers control in the wild, and good quality live rock not covered in any invader. coralline+
that's real ocean rock it appears and could be hundreds of years old before your tank. the reef is healthy, and the algae implies nothing other than pure balance. it does not imply a need for nutrient chasing/ although its ok to do as long as you comp feed for having done it in a tank with less than ideal mass addition to corals.

corals in an aquarium do today what we inflict in their environment 3 mos ago and sustain, if we know that time frame then we can make change X and sustain it for three mos to get a total opposite outcome now.

* Corals want to eat and take on mass when you add sw and light, and then as aquarists we begin to add things in the middle that stop that at times, its never arbitrary and always reversible we show in the threads I mailed ya
your opposites are target feeding of todays best refrigerated and frozen feeds, and water change actually to the point of sustained work, since work is guaranteed to fix any tank and nonwork is what we do when its in great condition/coral mass

you should do more than your planned water changes, so that you can feed more and dose less, its worth the work. its guaranteed to fix your tank.

Regarding the dosing, we're saying if you put your test kits away and disregard the flux, and change more than what you have scheduled your corals will be fine. I can link amazing professional tanks of the month any second taken off google that run instant ocean only, no dosing, and that's the calcium and alk ranges you report.

The level of tinkering you are doing is upper 20% tier of reefing, and plenty is done within the 80% who do not own test kits other than a swingarm hydrometer and a thermometer on the end of a wire for gauging change water.

Thanks for all your help @brandon429! What you are saying makes sense 100% but I just need to find a way to make it work for me I guess. Right now the 20% are a bucket-hauling-pain since I am in a small apartment and do not have a way to store RODI water efficiently. I think ideally I could set up an RODI bucket of 5 gallons that auto fills so I can do more frequent water changes without the need to wait a few hours every time. I am going to make up some NSW tonight and test it. If all is good then tomorrow I will probably do another 20% water change.

 

[brandon429]

and you must sort through twenty heartfelt offerings about what to do, tmi is better than stagnancy heh

your tank has such a backbone of good substrate in it im sure you'll be fine.

also, the gfo can be a long term part of the game if I had a big tank I too would use some, but only a little and only as needed, not during a mass building phase. id be spot killing algae then so I could feed better, then later on as fish bioload increases the indirect feeding of corals w increase too and that is a legit time for some rust in the bucket

 

[Tahoe61]

Make it simple: Judging from the images.

Stop dosing as everyone has already pointed out. Bring your Magnesium up. Double and triple check you testing routine.

A ten percent water change bimonthly should be adequate for the current corals and fish you have.

Test you source water values.

Dosing is way over rated, do not do so until you have the corals that utilize the trace elements, you do not.

It really is that simple.

 

[TheEngineer]

You might be in for some frequent water changes for a few months (10% every other week IMO) but then you could likely get away with once monthly 10% changes.

Deep breath, you already started the recovery by using the community's support.

 

[joshkirkland83]

I use red sea coral pro in my 90 and reef crystals in my 75. I have noticed i have to add more mag and cal to the reef crystals after a water change. If you want to maintan high levels like me, i would use red sea coral pro salt. But lord knows get your tank straight first before switching...just my 2 cents.

 

[Jimbo662]

I use red sea coral pro in my 90 and reef crystals in my 75. I have noticed i have to add more mag and cal to the reef crystals after a water change. If you want to maintan high levels like me, i would use red sea coral pro salt. But lord knows get your tank straight first before switching...just my 2 cents.

+1 on the red sea coral pro. I've been using it for about 2 yrs and never had any issue with any of my levels.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

My biggest question to you is what kind of salt mix are using?

 

[joshkirkland83]

My biggest question to you is what kind of salt mix are using?

Hes using reef crystals

 

[certain_code]

+1 on the red sea coral pro. I've been using it for about 2 yrs and never had any issue with any of my levels.

My biggest question to you is what kind of salt mix are using?

Hes using reef crystals

Yup, been using ReefCrystals since starting the tank. Not sure if the batch is putting out what it should yet but I am going to test later today to find out.

At this point what does everyone think of riding out the half(ish) bucket of RC, dosing to make sure the levels of the water are correct when doing water changes, and then switching to Red Sea Coral Pro? Thoughts?