Getting upset, don't know what I am missing here. Please help

[Breakthecycle2]

You're problem, if not the whole issue, at least a large junk of it, has to do with that salt. They are notorious for having whacky levels. I would ditch that ASAP and use either Tropic Marin Pro or ESV salt.

 

[brandon429]

any salt mix you use is optional. I used rc for 6 yrs in a row, then instantly switched to io with my 100% water changes, mixed lps and sps reef, then switched to every other brand my lfs uses which ranges greatly in calcium and alk variables.

what salt to use is in the top 4 most debated items in reef web history along with should I pinch a puffer, should I skim or use plants, and is UV bad or good.

nuances are all that become of the choice of salts, but for a non testing water change heavy feeding corals so thick you have to break them off to make room, nuances will not matter.

since we have tanks of the month using instant ocean only with all its low levels, and these tanks house lps and colorful sos, that shows salt choice isn't a make or break at all compared to feeding of diverse offerings.

100% for sure
if you take any practical salt mix sold you can change out 100% of my water to that mix, regardless of brand or measure, and my corals will not mind. ive switched brands 15 times over the years not even knowing when the lfs changed out the last batch for something cheaper for them to bulk sell, its been every name brand known except for the real high end ones lol/

 

[Breakthecycle2]

I've seen first hand what tanks using ESV and Tropic Marin look like. Full SPS tanks with minimal dosing. Take me for an example, I had to do dose my tank to kill digitate hydroids. I was trying the Red Sea Coral Pro Salt..the black bucket. The problem with that one is, the ALK is almost 12. Once the dosing was complete, I had to do 3 large water changes. 50-60 gallons for three straight days. Instead of using the black bucket, I used the blue bucket (still Red Sea, but I forget the exact name). My coral looked terrible. As soon as I figured out it was the salt, I did small water changes with TM and they came right back.

 

[certain_code]

any salt mix you use is optional. I used rc for 6 yrs in a row, then instantly switched to io with my 100% water changes, mixed lps and sps reef, then switched to every other brand my lfs uses which ranges greatly in calcium and alk variables.

what salt to use is in the top 4 most debated items in reef web history along with should I pinch a puffer, should I skim or use plants, and is UV bad or good.

nuances are all that become of the choice of salts, but for a non testing water change heavy feeding corals so thick you have to break them off to make room, nuances will not matter.

since we have tanks of the month using instant ocean only with all its low levels, and these tanks house lps and colorful sos, that shows salt choice isn't a make or break at all compared to feeding of diverse offerings.

100% for sure
if you take any practical salt mix sold you can change out 100% of my water to that mix, regardless of brand or measure, and my corals will not mind. ive switched brands 15 times over the years not even knowing when the lfs changed out the last batch for something cheaper for them to bulk sell, its been every name brand known except for the real high end ones lol/

How are you doing 100% water changes without crashing or getting a cycle? Do you simply have it automated to perform the 100% over the course of a month or so?

I've seen first hand what tanks using ESV and Tropic Marin look like. Full SPS tanks with minimal dosing. Take me for an example, I had to do dose my tank to kill digitate hydroids. I was trying the Red Sea Coral Pro Salt..the black bucket. The problem with that one is, the ALK is almost 12. Once the dosing was complete, I had to do 3 large water changes. 50-60 gallons for three straight days. Instead of using the black bucket, I used the blue bucket (still Red Sea, but I forget the exact name). My coral looked terrible. As soon as I figured out it was the salt, I did small water changes with TM and they came right back.

These back and forth conversations are really why I think myself and beginners find the hobby so difficult at times. sure, reviews and personal experiences should be expressed about things like salts but how is one to choose? RC gets just fine reviews but of course every tank is different.

To me it seems like I can just measure any NSW I make for water changes and dose directly to the NSW before performing the water change. Sure, it won't cover things like trace elements but it seems a lot of people are dosing those already for the coral color benefits.

I am going to look into potentially using a different brand but only after testing my RC batch and seeing how bad things actually are (from what I can test). I have already dropped my lighting down a few hours and am going to retest Mag tonight after dosing 100ppm. If Mag is solid, I will take a reading of Cal and Alk as well, kill the dosing pump, and continue taking reading over the course of a few weeks with some days in between.

I am out of town most of next week so will have to let the tank sit idle during that time. See how things go from there.

Thanks to everyone again!

 

[jgraz]

Just read through all this and here is my thought.

I may have missed this, nut what are you using to measure salinity. Hopefully a refractometer. If that is the case then make sure it is properly calibrated. Do not calibrate with RODI. I have seen read about countless problems resolved by this one simple thing. A improperly calibrated refractometer will lead to you thinking almost all other lvls are off.

 

[Habib(Salifert)]

I saw you are measuring calcium with a "meter". Several have reported large inaccuracies in measurement of calcium with that instrument.

Perhaps it might be worthwile to have the calcium but also alkalinity measured using a titration kit. Perhaps at a LFS or by a friend.

Perhaps the corals closing could be due to a low alkalinity or low calcium.
If the concentrations are highly skewed and adding both might not necessarily correct the situation.

 

[jgraz]

I saw you are measuring calcium with a "meter". Several have reported large inaccuracies in measurement of calcium with that instrument.

Perhaps it might be worthwile to have the calcium but also alkalinity measured using a titration kit. Perhaps at a LFS or by a friend.

Perhaps the corals closing could be due to a low alkalinity or low calcium.
If the concentrations are highly skewed and adding both might not necessarily correct the situation.

I noticed that as well. IMO the Hanna Cal checker makes a great paperweight but a poor calcium test. I would put far more trust in licking the water and making up with a calcium level off the top of my head.

 

[evolved]

For example, if I measure 3 days of alk and cal dropping a certain amount do I then just take an average of total depletion divided by the 3 days it has been?

Yes, but I would do such over a longer period than 3 days. A week would tell you more.

How long should I let the tank go and how often should I test before starting dosing again?

At least a week after getting Mg back up, but two would be better.

Is there a "sign" that points to when it would be okay to dose again?

When you see consistent daily consumption over a week's time or so.

But I also agree with some others too; there's really no need for you to be dosing at all for now.

 

[certain_code]

I saw you are measuring calcium with a "meter". Several have reported large inaccuracies in measurement of calcium with that instrument.

Perhaps it might be worthwile to have the calcium but also alkalinity measured using a titration kit. Perhaps at a LFS or by a friend.

Perhaps the corals closing could be due to a low alkalinity or low calcium.
If the concentrations are highly skewed and adding both might not necessarily correct the situation.

I noticed that as well. IMO the Hanna Cal checker makes a great paperweight but a poor calcium test. I would put far more trust in licking the water and making up with a calcium level off the top of my head.

I do have a bit of Salifert Calcium and Alk tests left from before I got the Hannas a few months back. I remember checking them against each other and saw similar results. I will do so again and see what comes up but looks like I should have looked more into the Hanna's before getting them. I just really hated color tritiation tests since lighting seems to effect my outcome for me. Maybe I am a bit color blind

 

[certain_code]

Yes, but I would do such over a longer period than 3 days. A week would tell you more.


At least a week after getting Mg back up, but two would be better.


When you see consistent daily consumption over a week's time or so.

But I also agree with some others too; there's really no need for you to be dosing at all for now.

3 Days was an example for ease of understanding. I get that this hobby takes time so will be spreading out that analysis more so. Can I take a baseline reading, then another a week later and just divide by 7 to get my daily consumption or is that assuming too much?

The current plan for all that is.

1. Make 10 gallons NSW tonight and test Mag/alk/cal with Salifert kits of NSW
2. Test Mag of tank
3. Turn off dosing and take parameter readings of Cal/Alk in tank as baseline
4. Test 7 days later to calculate alk/cal used daily.

 

[evolved]

Sounds correct.

 

[certain_code]

So here is where I am at.

1. Dosing last night brought Magnesium levels up to 1310ppm (Salifert). Dosing a bit more to get it to 1350ppm now.
2. Shut off dosing pump for the time being.
3. Making 10 gallons of NSW to test and do a water change. Test might not happen until tomorrow so I can let the water aerate, we will see.
4. Just tested my tank params:

Calcium (Salifert): 270 ppm
Alkalinity (Salifert): 11.5 dKH
Magnesium (Salifert): 1310ppm (dosed a bit more as noted above)

Thoughts?

 

[jgraz]

I mentioned earlier about salinity. Did you recalibrate your refractometer? With calibration fluid or rodi

 

[certain_code]

I mentioned earlier about salinity. Did you recalibrate your refractometer? With calibration fluid or rodi

I only have with RO/DI as I don't have calibration fluid on hand. Any idea if I can cut down the levels of Randy's DIY calibration fluid and net the same results? Dont have a 2 liter bottle hanging around the house.

 

[jgraz]

I only have with RO/DI as I don't have calibration fluid on hand. Any idea if I can cut down the levels of Randy's DIY calibration fluid and net the same results? Dont have a 2 liter bottle hanging around the house.

Not sure. I'm not familiar with the DIY solution. I remember reading it before but that's about it.

I have read and seen more then a few tanks having very similar issues to you. People chasing numbers, way overdosing, and pretty much sending the tank even further downhill only to finally give in and get the proper calibration solution and find there salinity way off.
Without salinity being right everything could be wrong.

I'd be willing to bet a LFS near you has it available if not possibly someone in a local reef club. It's a pretty common thing for reefers to have on hand.

 

[certain_code]

Not sure. I'm not familiar with the DIY solution. I remember reading it before but that's about it.

I have read and seen more then a few tanks having very similar issues to you. People chasing numbers, way overdosing, and pretty much sending the tank even further downhill only to finally give in and get the proper calibration solution and find there salinity way off.
Without salinity being right everything could be wrong.

I'd be willing to bet a LFS near you has it available if not possibly someone in a local reef club. It's a pretty common thing for reefers to have on hand.

I will pick some up but just as a gauge I made up Randy's DIY solution in full and did some calibration. First calibrated with RO/DI to 0 and then with the DIY solution to 1.026. After calibrating, I read my tank water at 1.0255 - 1.0260 so I am pretty confident that I am at least around where I should be.

Of course with any DIY solution there is room for error but I am confident that I am at least not reading 0.02 or more off of my initial reading.

 

[ryanmell]

Did you test the newly mixed saltwater yet, just curious what kind of reading you are going to get on that

 

[certain_code]

Did you test the newly mixed saltwater yet, just curious what kind of reading you are going to get on that

Not yet, going to let it aerate for a while and test it tomorrow. Will post back of courage with results.

 

[certain_code]

So, made up 5 gallons of NSW and let it aerate for 24 hours. Here are the results at room temperature, probably around 70 degrees.

Mag 1250
Alk 9.45
Cal 405
1.025 sg

Thoughts? Does not seem like a bad batch by any means.

 

[renato120]

I Almost lost everything a few months ago. Everything was fine till I changed my salt from RC to RSCP, and at the same time I changed all my bulbs at once. Big mistake. All my zoas started to melt due to my parameters not been stable after the change. I stopped dosing CA and ALK. RSCP salt have more CA/ALK/MAG so everything was off. I took a water sample to 3 different lfs to check what was wrong. Everything was perfect. I wish it was not so I could find the problem. Some said my water was too clean. So I shut off my GFO.
Another month and everything was still dying.
Half of my sps was gone all bleaching. My zoas was mostly gone and all closed. The light fixture was 4inches above the water. They said I was crazy it was too close tonthe water. So I raised the light slowly till I was 9 inches above the water. I finally was able to correct my parameters. Now Im dealing with a red hair algae. I slowly lower the light to 5 inches. Some of the bleaching corals are stable. Not bleaching anymore. I have algae but 0 phosphates. All my algae are eating the PO4. Nitrates are around 5.
My battle now is deal with the algae. I bought 40 blue legs, 10 turbo snails, 2 sea urchins.
Its much better. My advice to you is be pacient and try different things. Write down all you parameters. Check them weekly to see how much are been used and then start dosing once or twice a week. It worked for me. Made my patameters stable. It will take a few weeks for you to notice if its getting better or not. Use carbon. If you are using a refractometer calibrate it. Some times they go off by itself. You could have a wrong read of salinity.