Going Fallow After 5 months Due To Ich

[dochow]

Today I went fallow in my DT after having my 75 gallon mixed reef going for 5 months without problem. I wanted to start this thread for people to read and follow my experience and to not repeat my mistakes.

Took 2 hours to catch my fish and had to take apart my entire reef. Terrible experience. I figured live blackworms, high quality frozen foods, fresh chopped clams, using Selcon and practicing good husbandry would help my fish fight all diseases thrown at them. This did NOT work for me.

Everything was going well until I added 3 Lyretail Anthias (1 males, 2 females) from Petco without QT.

After 4 weeks, all fish (besides clowns) were showing ich despite looking great for the first 3 weeks after Anthia addition. The Ich wasn't terrible, but wasn't improving after a few weeks with live foods. At 3 weeks, both females passed from what looked like Uronema or maybe Brook... Was tough to make official diagnosis.

The following are now in a 20 gallon long QT. Not cycled. Probably not big enough for them all for 80 days which worries me. I do have several 3" - 4" PVC piping for hiding places.

1 Kole Tang
1 Male Anthia
1 Royal Gramma
2 Stubby Ocelaris Clowns
1 Starry Blenny

The Kole tang took some tissue damage from trying to catch, but all looks superficial.

I have NOT started Cooper yet, but I have everything ready to go.

I'm looking for advice, encouragement and anything you can offer as consolation for royally screwing up!!!!

Oh yeah, going forward I will always QT, which I have tried in past, but never really feeling it was successful. TTM will be my way to go for any new fish.

I will also set up a frag and invertebrate QT tank going forward....

Help me R2R!

 

[Duke4Life]

Sorry to hear. With an uncycled qt I'd be ready to do lots of water changes and adding whatever live bacteria I could until you start copper. Have lots of water on hand and be prepared to do multiple water changes if necessary.

Keep your head up! It seems like you've learned a lot, now use that knowledge going forward. We all mess up.

 

[dochow]

I have 10 gallons on-hand, with that bio load I'm assuming I may need to do changes every 3-5 days for next few weeks. When do you think I should start Copper?

Maybe even pre-treat with Furan-2 or Kanaplex to try and prevent secondary bacterial infection from tissue issues due to trying to catch fish in DT?

 

[Duke4Life]

I have 10 gallons on-hand, with that bio load I'm assuming I may need to do changes every 3-5 days for next few weeks. When do you think I should start Copper?

Maybe even pre-treat with Furan-2 or Kanaplex to try and prevent secondary bacterial infection from tissue issues due to trying to catch fish in DT?

@Humblefish lets get him on this as he has way more experience

 

[Humblefish]

Doing water changes to control ammonia will work, but I highly advise adding a HOB filter to your QT. One which utilizes bio-media capable of housing nitrifying bacteria (Aquaclear 50 would work for a 20 gal QT; the 70 would be better.) I would dose something like Dr Tim's or Seachem Stability a few days before you begin copper, to get the bio-filter going.

I also suggest picking up a Seachem ammonia alert badge to keep an eye on the ammonia:

 

[Ricsy]

Today I went fallow in my DT after having my 75 gallon mixed reef going for 5 months without problem. I wanted to start this thread for people to read and follow my experience and to not repeat my mistakes.

Took 2 hours to catch my fish and had to take apart my entire reef. Terrible experience. I figured live blackworms, high quality frozen foods, fresh chopped clams, using Selcon and practicing good husbandry would help my fish fight all diseases thrown at them. This did NOT work for me.

Everything was going well until I added 3 Lyretail Anthias (1 males, 2 females) from Petco without QT.

After 4 weeks, all fish (besides clowns) were showing ich despite looking great for the first 3 weeks after Anthia addition. The Ich wasn't terrible, but wasn't improving after a few weeks with live foods. At 3 weeks, both females passed from what looked like Uronema or maybe Brook... Was tough to make official diagnosis.

The following are now in a 20 gallon long QT. Not cycled. Probably not big enough for them all for 80 days which worries me. I do have several 3" - 4" PVC piping for hiding places.

1 Kole Tang
1 Male Anthia
1 Royal Gramma
2 Stubby Ocelaris Clowns
1 Starry Blenny

The Kole tang took some tissue damage from trying to catch, but all looks superficial.

I have NOT started Cooper yet, but I have everything ready to go.

I'm looking for advice, encouragement and anything you can offer as consolation for royally screwing up!!!!

Oh yeah, going forward I will always QT, which I have tried in past, but never really feeling it was successful. TTM will be my way to go for any new fish.

I will also set up a frag and invertebrate QT tank going forward....

Help me R2R!

Try putting ginger root slices in the tank and mix some ginger powder on the fish food it will work it will fight off the ich,
My fish had ich before than I tried this method and it works!
I didn't have to reaquascape my tank or tear my reef tank down to catch the fishes cause I didn't have too!

 

[Humblefish]

Try putting ginger root slices in the tank and mix some ginger powder on the fish food it will work it will fight off the ich,
My fish had ich before than I tried this method and it works!

I don't even know what to say to this

 

[NanaReefer]

Try putting ginger root slices in the tank and mix some ginger powder on the fish food it will work it will fight off the ich,
My fish had ich before than I tried this method and it works!
I didn't have to reaquascape my tank or tear my reef tank down to catch the fishes cause I didn't have too!

[emoji849]

 

[dochow]

I do have HOB with carbon in it and seachem ammonia guard...it's already at alert....

 

[dochow]

Thank Humblefish, walk me through this mess....

 

[Humblefish]

Thank Humblefish, walk me through this mess....

Can you post a pic of your QT so we can see what you've got to work with?

 

[Maritimer]

Posting my sympathy . . . 'cause I'm in the same place, for the same reason.

Keep in mind that once you do start medicating, that carbon will probably have to come out. Carbon pulls a lot of stuff out of the water - including most medications!

When I started my QT, I took the opportunity to set a bag of ceramic "noodles" in my sump for a couple of weeks before transferring the fish. (I know ... too late for your situation!) That allowed a bacterial colony to start up, and I also dosed the QT with a half bottle of Bio-Spira before I transferred the fish from the DT. So far, my ammonia badge shows yellow . . .

Hope your fallow period goes smoothly, and that your fish are ready for a happy, healthy reintroduction when it's done!

~Bruce

 

[dochow]

I'll shoot pic in AM when lights go on

 

[dochow]

Any thoughts on the fish I currently have in QT and where I should keep my copper levels?

I have Furan-2, Kanaplex and praziquantel on-hand.

I'm thinking of combining the copper with Furan-2 as some of the fish have some tissue damage from scraping rocks trying to be caught? Any thoughts?

I'm getting some form of bacteria boost today to help boost beneficial bacteria (whatever they have at petco unfortunately, closest LFS to me).

Plan is to start slow dosing copper tonight or tomorrow morning. The ich looks worse today, probably from stress.

Sound like an OK game plan?

 

[Maritimer]

Let me preface this by saying that when Humblefish responds, if he says _anything_ that runs counter to whatever I write here, listen to him and not me! (>_<)

While you're at Petco, consider picking up something to boost oxygen levels in the tank as well ... I added Maracyn one and two to copper in my QT, and lost fish overnight. I've since added a powerhead with venturi, which is blasting bubbles across the bottom of my QT. Not pretty, but the remaining fish got through the antibiotic treatment.

Copper at 0.20ppm or so ought to be therapeautic for ich, without being too toxic for your fish. Consider bringing the levels up in gradual stages, rather than all at once - which can be hard to justify if your fish are already in bad shape due to ich. Keep in mind that the ich on your fish now was on them when they left the display - the parasites haven't had time to leave the fish, encyst on the tank walls/decor (don't use your live rock for this! It'll absorb a portion of the copper, making therapeutic levels difficult to maintain, and then leach it back into any tank you try to use it in again later. Even _years_ later.), encyst, and release daughter cells.

~Bruce

 

[dochow]

Pics of QT tank. I have 2 HOB filters going as well as pump on side. Also have air stone blasting. Crossing my fingers. Not everyone eating yet, but they were fat coming into tank so they should be OK for a little as they adjust.

 

[dochow]

Good point on Copper, will slowly bring up over 3-4 days unless someone suggests even slower. Thanks Bruce

 

[dochow]

API quick start added a few hours ago.

The ich isn't really too bad at this point, I'm more concerned with bacterial infection immediately.

I'm worried about the male Anthia. His scales look kinda "dry." Almost "raised" looking. Also fins a little ratty. Female Anthias looked like they had Uronema. Pick attached of male now in QT and pics of female from a few days ago before she passed...

What should I do??

Should I start Copper or treat bacterial infection? Should I do both?

I have Furan-2 and Kanaplex.

 

[Humblefish]

Copper at 0.20ppm or so ought to be therapeautic for ich

While this is technically true for ionic copper or plain ol' copper sulfate, I feel treating at 0.35 is the safer option. Running it up to 0.5 allows for even more wiggle room and most fish still tolerate that level fine.

What should I do??

Should I start Copper or treat bacterial infection? Should I do both?

I have Furan-2 and Kanaplex.

You're faced with a quagmire because if you begin treatment now you will most likely wipeout your bio-filter, rendering the API Quick Start you just dosed useless. The live nitrifying bacteria needs at least a few days to get established before being hit with copper & antibiotics. You also will need to add metronidazole to the mix if you suspect Uronema is in play here. So, we're looking at combining 4 different medications to combat ich, bacterial infection and Uronema: Copper, Furan-2, Kanaplex, and either Seachem Metroplex or Metro-MS.

I have combined all 4 of those meds before, but its pretty rough on the fish. Mainly because that mixture will cause appetite suppression and oxygen depletion. The first thing that needs to happen if you wish to attempt this is that glass top need to go. It is preventing you from getting maximum gas exchange; the top needs to be left wide open so the water can "breathe". I also suggest pointing one or two small powerheads towards the surface of the water, as that is going to be more effective for gas exchange than using air stones. Normally, the air stones would be fine but not in this particular situation (with all these meds being added to the water.)

Your best option would actually be TTM: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

That would allow you to treat ich in a non-chemical environment, so you could safely add the other 3 meds whilst doing TTM. Removing just copper from the equation may not sound like much, but it would help with the appetite suppression/decreased gas exchange problem.

 

[dochow]

I would love to do the TTM method but I don't have the equipment and time is not on my side. Unfortunately I work 14 hrs a day right now so I am limited on time for doing TTM. I plan on doing that moving forward with smaller fish in 5 gallon tanks, but for all these fish I would need another full 20 gallon set up.

Ugh this is terrible...