Got fish with ICH!!

[ChattReefer]

Clowns and velvet can be a bit difficult to "see" because of their thick mucous coats and some seem to have individual resistance to the disease. Entire tanks of mixed fish have been wiped out and only the clowns survive, but they are carriers of the disease. But what goes on unseen within the gills can be devastating. Velvet reproduces almost exponentially. So that you have all the tools to help, here's Humblefish's Emergency Velvet Treatment. Note the underlined and bolded passages. Humble has noted increased survival rates when Acriflavine products are used as a bath following a freshwater dip.

Emergency Treatment for Marine Velvet Disease

I recently acquired 3 fish - Longnose Butterfly, Kole Tang, Naso Tang - with velvet. None showed visible physical symptoms right away, but they all came from a tank where velvet was known to be present so I just patiently waited. Before & after pictures will follow immediately after this write-up.

In short, the Butterflyfish didn’t make it; however the two tangs did. The only difference in their treatment was I used formalin (with Methylene Blue) on the butterfly in a bath solution, whereas the tangs got acriflavine (with NO Methylene Blue). It’s also worth noting that the butterfly & Kole Tang showed symptoms the worst, whereas the Naso only had moderate visible symptoms. Tangs are also generally considered hardier than butterflyfish, so there’s that factor to consider as well. Anyway, here is the treatment I used on them:

The short version:

• 5 minute freshwater dip
• Immediately afterwards, perform a chemical bath (in saltwater matching SG/temp the fish came from). You have two options:

1. Acriflavine (preferred) - Do the bath for 75-90 minutes, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain acriflavine: Acriflavine-MS and Ruby Reef Rally. DO NOT mix acriflavine with any other chemicals.
2. Formalin - Do the bath for 30-60 minutes max, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS, Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. Use protection (rubber gloves, face mask, eye protection, etc.) whenever handling formalin as it is a known carcinogen! However, you can add Methylene Blue to the formalin bath (1 capful per 2-3 gallons of bath water.)

• After the bath, place the fish in a QT pre-dosed at 80mg/gal using Chloroquine phosphate. In theory, copper (exs. Cupramine, Coppersafe, Copper Power) should work just as well as CP. However, due to how fast velvet can reproduce you don’t have the luxury of slowly ramping up the copper level as is normally advised. Therefore, the fish needs to be placed in a QT with copper already at minimum therapeutic levels. This is the advantage CP has over copper in this particular situation.
• While in QT, use a wide spectrum antibiotic (exs. Seachem Kanaplex, Furan-2) for the first week to ward off any possible bacterial infections. Secondary bacterial infections are very common in fish with preexisting parasitic infestations such as velvet.
• Keep the fish in CP or copper (at therapeutic levels) for one month. However, you can transfer the fish into a non-medicated holding tank for observation after just two weeks (explained below). DO NOT lower the CP or copper level before transferring.

Thanks so much!

Snagging a 20g long as we speak. Going to do the above to all my fish.

Another question, I only have 1 DP. Will the fish be alright crammed into a 20g long for 78 days while my DP starves off the ICH?

 

[Big G]

Thanks so much!

Snagging a 20g long as we speak. Going to do the above to all my fish.

Another question, I only have 1 DP. Will the fish be alright crammed into a 20g long for 78 days while my DP starves off the ICH?

How many fish? Size? Lots of reefers with far more experience than me swear by 40 breeders if your'e dealing with Tangs, Butterflys, etc. things of that size. I like the 20 for wrasses, anthias, and other med-small fish.

 

[EmdeReef]

Here is a pic of the living clown. Doesn't look like Velvet

Ich won't kill fish fast if at all, generally you have time to treat. It's either Velvet or Brook.

The area around Clown's mouth actually looks like Brooklynela. Was that always present? Did the dead fish have any 'mucus' or looked like skin was scratched or anything?

 

[ChattReefer]

How many fish? Size? Lots of reefers with far more experience than me swear by 40 breeders if your'e dealing with Tangs, Butterflys, etc. things of that size. I like the 20 for wrasses, anthias, and other med-small fish.

I have a small Yellow Tang (2.5") Blue Regal Tang (1") Cardinal (1.5") Cleaner Wrasse (2.5") Red Dragonet (2") Clown (3")

 

[Big G]

I have a small Yellow Tang (2.5") Blue Regal Tang (1") Cardinal (1.5") Cleaner Wrasse (2.5") Red Dragonet (2") Clown (3")

That's a lot of fish for a 20. If you go with the 20, I'd add some plastic coral-like plants, a couple of pvc fittings, to lessen the stress a bit. A foam bubble filter to help out with filtration. Lots of water changes. And a Seachem Ammonia Alert badge placed deeply into the tank away from the light. Sometimes the lighting interferes with the reading of the badge.

 

[Big G]

Now it looks like my blue regal Tang has a white spot on his black steipe. Could Ich develop over night like this?

Possible, but velvet moves very quickly. Very fast cycle.

 

[Humblefish]

I have a small Yellow Tang (2.5") Blue Regal Tang (1") Cardinal (1.5") Cleaner Wrasse (2.5") Red Dragonet (2") Clown (3")

The dragonet cannot be treated with copper. As hard as this will be to swallow, I would make a deal with that LFS to trade it in for store credit.

 

[ChattReefer]

That's a lot of fish for a 20. If you go with the 20, I'd add some plastic coral-like plants, a couple of pvc fittings, to lessen the stress a bit. A foam bubble filter to help out with filtration. Lots of water changes. And a Seachem Ammonia Alert badge placed deeply into the tank away from the light. Sometimes the lighting interferes with the reading of the badge.

Just going to be picking up a tank from Petco. Might look for a 30g. Definitely adding PVC. Will get an ammonia badge as well.

Is there truly no way to treat Ich in a reef with no fish to shorten the 78 day period?

 

[Big G]

Is there truly no way to treat Ich in a reef with no fish to shorten the 78 day period?

From Humblefish's Treatment Guide: Note the underlined and bolded passage:

Hyposalinity: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and gill flukes.

How To Treat - Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.

One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off water and carbon dioxide from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, gentle on the fish. Scientific research also showed hyposalinity at 15 ppt for 2 days eliminated juvenile and adult flukes. When maintained for 5 days, egg hatching was prevented.

Cons/Side Effects - Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.)

 

[ChattReefer]

From Humblefish's Treatment Guide: Note the underlined and bolded passage:

Hyposalinity: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and gill flukes.

How To Treat - Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.

One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off water and carbon dioxide from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, gentle on the fish. Scientific research also showed hyposalinity at 15 ppt for 2 days eliminated juvenile and adult flukes. When maintained for 5 days, egg hatching was prevented.

Cons/Side Effects - Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.)

Sadly my tank is full of corals... Guess I'm getting a 29g here at Petco and treating my fish in it for 80 days

 

[DLHDesign]

Is there truly no way to treat Ich in a reef with no fish to shorten the 78 day period?

Not that is proven to work, no. And it really doesn't make sense to go through the whole process only to risk leaving some behind. :-(

 

[ChattReefer]

The dragonet cannot be treated with copper. As hard as this will be to swallow, I would make a deal with that LFS to trade it in for store credit.

Thanks for chiming in. No way I'm going back to that store. There is another in town I can use. Any way I could treat the Dragonet in my display?

 

[DLHDesign]

Any way I could treat the Dragonet in my display?

Not in the DT, no.

You could try to run the Dragonet through a TTM process (using buckets if you must; 10gal tanks if you can), but because of their dietary needs, dragons are difficult (at best) to get through this process. You'll likely need to keep plenty of live pods on-hand and hope that the fish can adapt to a new environment fast enough to actually eat.

 

[Big G]

Not in the DT, no.

You could try to run the Dragonet through a TTM process (using buckets if you must; 10gal tanks if you can), but because of their dietary needs, dragons are difficult (at best) to get through this process. You'll likely need to keep plenty of live pods on-hand and hope that the fish can adapt to a new environment fast enough to actually eat.

Can't have any fish in the DT for 76 days. You need to starve out the parasites of ich/velvet/brook by not giving the parasites a fish to feed upon.

 

[ChattReefer]

Not in the DT, no.

You could try to run the Dragonet through a TTM process (using buckets if you must; 10gal tanks if you can), but because of their dietary needs, dragons are difficult (at best) to get through this process. You'll likely need to keep plenty of live pods on-hand and hope that the fish can adapt to a new environment fast enough to actually eat.

My Dragonet actually eats mysis from a pipette. Just not really sure what to do with him for 78 days

 

[ChattReefer]

Not in the DT, no.

You could try to run the Dragonet through a TTM process (using buckets if you must; 10gal tanks if you can), but because of their dietary needs, dragons are difficult (at best) to get through this process. You'll likely need to keep plenty of live pods on-hand and hope that the fish can adapt to a new environment fast enough to actually eat.

My Dragonet actually eats mysis from a pipette. Just not really sure what to do with him for 78 days

 

[DLHDesign]

Should make things easier that it's easier to feed the fish.
You won't need to keep your other fish in copper for the full time that the DT is fallow; just the first 30 days or so. TTM is faster than that even (14 days), so the dragon will be "out" of QT before your fish in copper treatment. Once all fish are out of QT, you'll be able to add them all into the same tank. At that point, they'll just wait out the fallow period before being added back into the DT together.

 

[ChattReefer]

Question, can I use current tank water for my QT? Or do I need new saltwater?

 

[ChattReefer]

Should make things easier that it's easier to feed the fish.
You won't need to keep your other fish in copper for the full time that the DT is fallow; just the first 30 days or so. TTM is faster than that even (14 days), so the dragon will be "out" of QT before your fish in copper treatment. Once all fish are out of QT, you'll be able to add them all into the same tank. At that point, they'll just wait out the fallow period before being added back into the DT together.

I read the TTM method and is a bit confusing to me, is it just two buckets of saltwater? Or is one a treated bucket? Also, I don't have enough room to have 4 tanks around (DP and 3 QT tanks) so would keeping the Dragonet in a bucket for 30 days be ok? Is there no other method of treating the Dragonet?

 

[DLHDesign]

Best to use new water so that you know it's clean.

TTM is one tank at a time, switching to a new tank every 72hrs (or slightly less, really). It works because the ich parasite has a known lifecycle and by swapping the fish into a new (clean) tank, you break the cycle. Do this long enough (14 days), and the fish will be clean of all parasites, the water will be free of them, and they won't be attached to anything waiting to reproduce. Ergo; you will have removed ich from your fish without chemicals.
The reason you need two tanks (or buckets) is because you have to clean each tank (with vinegar+water and then fully air dry) as you remove the fish from it.

Keeping a fish in a bucket for 30 days is not ideal, no. But it should be possible with proper aeration and good water husbandry. Keep an eye on the ammonia levels (Ammonia Badge FTW!). Think of the bucket as a DIY nano tank.