Have you ditched LED's for T5's?

yeldarbj · Jan 17, 2012

My sps seem to appreciate the addition of 420nm violet and regular blues. I think as more people are experimenting, we'll find a better mix than the RB/W combos.

Lowsingle · Jan 17, 2012

See below spectrum from the manufacturer below.....the white bulb doesn't look that narrow to me......the blue and actinic lights look narrow, but that is what make the corals pop!

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/maxspect/77410-different-light-emitting-diodes-chip.html#post850037

cheers,
Darren

Reefer831 · Jan 17, 2012

double post...:tongue:

Reefer831 · Jan 17, 2012

I got rid of my LED'S and went to T5's...I love it...I think I will add my blue reef bright's to my T5's cause I think they help bring out color in some things, but I hated LED's alone....blue LED's just make everything look so crazy, everyone called it the black light effect, it was cool for a few months...I just dont like having a black light looking tank 24/7...and you always have that thought in the back of your head..how does this coral REALLY look..then you frag a coral and sell or trade it to a friend, and it looks nothing like it did under the crazy black light...then you realize your tank is just a fake...time to buy new light!!! lol...that's my story.:tongue:

Reef Breeders · Jan 17, 2012

Reefer831 said:
I got rid of my LED'S and went to T5's...I love it...I think I will add my blue reef bright's to my T5's cause I think they help bring out color in some things, but I hated LED's alone....blue LED's just make everything look so crazy, everyone called it the black light effect, it was cool for a few months...I just dont like having a black light looking tank 24/7...and you always have that thought in the back of your head..how does this coral REALLY look..then you frag a coral and sell or trade it to a friend, and it looks nothing like it did under the crazy black light...then you realize your tank is just a fake...time to buy new light!!! lol...that's my story.:tongue:

Lol I did that for the first few days, then settled on a more 14k look. I will just have to see what happens!

flyfish4trout · Jan 17, 2012

I also decided to go back to T5 for my new build. I really like the LEDs that I had, but in the end I just thought that the corals looked better under the T5s. I am mostly focused on Acros. With the LEDs I had several acros that loved it and looked great and several that grew great but really morphed in color. Like my Palmers Blue Milli turned light teal, red planet turned pink and white even at the bottom of the tank. I still have the LED set up and I am thinking about adding some other colors to the mix and giving it another go round. I do miss the shimmer from the LED.

creefer · Jan 17, 2012

flyfish4trout said:
I also decided to go back to T5 for my new build. I really like the LEDs that I had, but in the end I just thought that the corals looked better under the T5s. I am mostly focused on Acros. With the LEDs I had several acros that loved it and looked great and several that grew great but really morphed in color. Like my Palmers Blue Milli turned light teal, red planet turned pink and white even at the bottom of the tank. I still have the LED set up and I am thinking about adding some other colors to the mix and giving it another go round. I do miss the shimmer from the LED.

I have been trying, for the longest time, to figure out if I want to do T5 with my new build. My experience has been much like yours. I have acros that grow extremely well in nearly all locations in the tank, but the colors have morphed considerably. This morphing of colors alone is annoying.

shred5 · Jan 18, 2012

Lowsingle said:
the blue and actinic lights look narrow, but that is what make the corals pop!

cheers,
Darren

It's what causes a coral to flouresce but it does not cause the coloration in corals.

Lowsingle · Jan 19, 2012

shred5 said:
It's what causes a coral to flouresce but it does not cause the coloration in corals.

Indeed

EpicWin · Jan 23, 2012

What's funny about this continuous argument of mh vs t5 vs led is that light is light. Led are far superior in light production per watt. Thus in the near future they will be the unquestioned no brainier solution. Right now it comes down to spectrum, and led still have a ways to go. I agree fully with the not liking of the black light look. I have several different led fixtures and can say unquestionably that my units that have a broader spectrum ( ie more colors of led) grow faster with better color.

Alex T. · Jan 23, 2012

LILBUDDHA said:
IME
A transistion from mh to leds is a hard path to make .Sometimes it pays off and sometime it doesn't
The coloration issue is with any red corals .. Not a Setosa ... (it's not really red imho ). Usually a table like red planet ,red robin ..
The same applies to Acans some will go from red 2 orange .
Purple and blue SPS get good coloration with leds .
I went back and forth with leds . Anywho I still own a unit because if I sold it I would take a big hit on it #$$$
My new build has T5's . I think the best best would be a hybrid unit using t5 and led . To the above poster thinking of removing the t5's . I think that's a bad move . I have always wondered if it is the UV in MH and T5s that make SPS so awesome . Just a thought.. Leds from my understanding do not emit UV at all unless a special emitter is used . My old PACSUN had them and I had no issues with SPS of any color with that unit as long as I kept the SPS in close range of the unit .

I have to agree with this comment. You can sit under LED lighting all day and not get a sunburn. The sun will burn you. Metal Halides will burn you, and T5's will burn you...they're even used in tanning beds. I think there's something about UV exposure that speeds up photosynthesis and allows corals to take in this light and show their pigments. LED, although some argue it works great, is really in its' infancy. I've seen it color up frags and grow them a little, but no colonies as of yet. The PFO Solaris has been out for a while, and a lot of people bought those fixtures and I've yet to see even one compete with halide or t5 in any of the forums I frequent.

I don't know of any coral frag farmers that have switched over either. I want it to work just as much as everybody else. The thought of lowering the electric bill that much would make me a happy camper...especially if I don't need to run a chiller. I just want to see long term success with SPS growing out of the water like I do with halides and T5. Then I'll believe...and then I'll start saving to make the switch. I'm having a hard time believing that the LED's won't shift in spectrum for 50,000 hours too. Again, time will tell.

Onedesign1 · Jan 23, 2012

I dunno.....I run DIY LEDs and my SPS are growing wonderfully with terrific color. My red planet is my best grower from a frag and color. Purples and blues are not an issue. My stuff us reaching up and shows great growth on the tips.

Royal blues are indeed near UV which is one of the reasons our eyes cant judge their brightness well. We can add true UV easy enough though I'm not a believer that it's needed.

My belief is spectrum makes the difference and straight up white and royal blue does not provide the full spectrum that T5s and MHs do because LEDs are so narrow banded. I chose to add greens and reds to my fixture and it's a winner...at least for my tank.

My other issue is the PAR levels everyone wants to run LEDs at.....too much is not always better IME. In fact take some readings off a successful T5 tank if you want a good perspective.....it's not all that high

AquamanSE · Jan 24, 2012

Sorry guys but again.....you need to think outside the box! You cant currently buy anything and have the right spectrum. People continue to talk negative about leds because their AI, etc. dosent work ofcourse it dosent work its crap. Get a Par Meter and do your own DIY to acheive both the right spectrum & par! The only way their is no plug and play on the market & may be awhile.

shred5 · Jan 24, 2012

Onedesign1 said:
I dunno.....I run DIY LEDs and my SPS are growing wonderfully with terrific color. My red planet is my best grower from a frag and color. Purples and blues are not an issue. My stuff us reaching up and shows great growth on the tips.

Royal blues are indeed near UV which is one of the reasons our eyes cant judge their brightness well. We can add true UV easy enough though I'm not a believer that it's needed.

My belief is spectrum makes the difference and straight up white and royal blue does not provide the full spectrum that T5s and MHs do because LEDs are so narrow banded. I chose to add greens and reds to my fixture and it's a winner...at least for my tank.

My other issue is the PAR levels everyone wants to run LEDs at.....too much is not always better IME. In fact take some readings off a successful T5 tank if you want a good perspective.....it's not all that high

I agree it’s not a led issue but a spectrum issue. Some manufacturers are adding more colors to there fixtures and the leds will improve over time. There is no doubt leds produce enough par to grow corals but narrow spectrum only leads to color in certain corals or a shift in colors. T-5 had this same issue in the beginning. It wasn’t till some of the purple and red lamps came out or people used the Ge lamps till you started seeing really good colors in corals. Again mainly sps because allot come from shallower water and are exposed to a wider spectrum.

There was also bleaching problems with t-5 in the beginning like there is with leds. Some feel that it has to do with the narrow spectrum and also possibility that allot of the par falls in the spectrum par meters can not pick up thus the lamps or leds are putting out much more par.

People should read 2Sunny's post in this thread on page 4 because it is really good.

shred5 · Jan 24, 2012

Another thing is par meters are not very accurate especially for reefs beasue we use so much blue light. It will prefer certain colors of light over others.

Right from apogee.

Apogee Instruments Quantum Sensor - Spectral Response

The spectral response of the Apogee Sensor used in Quantum Meters and the Quantum Sensor is shown at right. As the figure indicates, the sensor underestimates the 400 to 500 nm wavelengths (blue light), overestimates the 550-650 wavelengths (yellow and orange light), and has little sensitivity above 650 nm (red light). Fortunately, common light sources are mixtures of colors and the spectral errors offset each other. The sensor measures green light (500-550 nm) accurately, so it can be used to measure the radiation inside and at the bottom of plant canopies

So basically if you have wide spectrum it ballances out but is a reef we mostly use blue so par could be much higher than measured...

ifarmer · Nov 20, 2012

yes, after about a year using LED. I put it away for good. I was back to T5 the last 3 months and am getting the smiling on my face again

BigAl07 · Nov 20, 2012

I'm running LED for several years now and wouldn't have anything else. If you factor in the new "Full Spectrum" units on the market today you'll see a whole new breed of LED fan's with THRIVING tanks with wall to wall AMAZING SPS.

pjr · Nov 20, 2012

Interesting thread.

I've been running LEDs for over 3 1/2 years.... I am using the Sunbrite 10 tubes. My current configuration is the Gen 3 model. I use three tubes in the 6 foot length (since I have a 6 foot 135g tank); each tube (plastic lens coupled to an finned aluminum body, which also serves as a heat sink) contains 36 x 3 watt Cree LEDs.

I have great success with SPS and various LPS (along with a few leathers). My blue tort has great color and growth; done well with many other acros as well. Acans and blastos do not do well --- too much light. It's not a matter of color, just over lit situation. They do much better in my daughter's breeder 50 (2x36" T5) than my rig. Also my Chalices must be hidden in the corner, else they will quickly fry.

By the way, I've used Gen 1, gen 1a, and the Gen 2 over this time as well, and had success with them all. Of course, I once used 8 Gen 1/1a tubes; now I have more output with just 3. The technology has really evolved, and I love LEDs.... would never go back to my Radiums, Hamilton 14k, or anything else!

P.S. Chalice exceptions: Moon Man, Hollywood Stunner, and Blue Chalice have loved LEDs. Psycho growth...

REEFKEEPER10 · Nov 20, 2012

Have you looked into the new AI VEGA it it full spectrum.

SamsReef · Nov 21, 2012

Folks,

I have used all three at different points of time. Excluding everything else and focussing purely on coloration, I would rate MH, then LEDs and then T5s. However, when you account for teh growth speed, electricity bill, the ease of switching it on and off (can not do that with MH), being able to keep just actinics on....no need for chillers....LEDs excel. I currently use a combination of LEDs and Halide. 2 Kessil 350 and a 400 MH radium on my 4 feet semi circular.