Help With Stubborn QT Ammonia...REALLY...really...stubborn

[DanielJameS]

Hey all, quick call for help here. I have QT’d countless times using “seeded” media, sponges etc, but have always still had ammonia issues. I have tried the following:

- Aquaclear 70 sponge In DT sump for 30 days
- Aquaclear 110 sponge - in DT sump for 30-45 days
- Aquaclear 110 sponge for 60 days (several times)

This most recent time, before I had any intentions of quarantine, I dropped a mesh net bag fillled with at least 1lb (enough to fill 1/3 of an auquaclear 110) of ceramic bio rings Into my DT’s sump for over 2 months. At one point it was covered with all kinds of “funk” i figured, when needed, I’ll have so much bacteria I’ll have no issue whatsoever “I’m prepared this time.” Not only that, I set up the 20L Quarantine and added a small bottle of Seachem stability over a period of 1.5 weeks and still had ammonia issues. Needless to say I’ve done a TON of water changes and am blowing through salt. I continued to do WC’s and just last week upgraded the 20L to a 29 I got for a good price. I used the same media, equipment, PVC/decor, I even wiped the sides of the 20L with a sponge cleaner and wrung it out into the new 29 thinking whatever may have been on the glass would only help, used the same water (but added 10 additional gallons) AND added a full bottle of Dr. Tim’s (for 30 gallons) and I am STILL having ammonia issues. The QT has been set up since 11.15.17 and today is the 22nd of December.

I ask restfully, WHAT ON GODS GREEN EARTH IS GOING ON HERE!???

This has to be one of those main issues that causes people to freak out and throw fish into their DT early. Despite doing everything I “think” is right the thought of killing fish from user error is far worse to me than them dying from parasitic devastation.

Here are some shots of my backlit ammonia badge, different light = different colors (also frustrating as all get out)

CFL gooseneck lamp

Standard bulb - bathroom vanity

LED flashlight

And here is a pic of my API ammonia vial:

Now I’ve had medications in the water. Most recently prior to this API test was general cure. I also added a small bit of Prime yesterday (pre-medication then carbon filtered)I have had CP in the water as well and knowing API measures total ammonia (not just toxic) it’s always been a struggle which to trust.

I’m currently taking measures to strip out everything I can to “reset” the tank...YET AGAIN...so I can protect my fish, but I have to ask...

What am i doing wrong here? What’s the deal? I consider myself fairly experienced and knowledgeable (mostly thanks to this forum) and have had more fish in quarantine than this, in a smaller QT...and never a month out have I battled ammonia like this.

Here are some additional details:

29G QT
AQ 110 (w/ sponge and seeded bio media)
1 small bottle stability and 1 small bottle Dr Tim’s from 11.15.17-present
QT up and running 11.15.17
WC’s every 2-5 days (more in beginning when 20L was Main QT) and never immediately after adding bacteria

FISH:
1 - tiny bangai cardinal
1 - small Fiji BD damsel
1 - 3” flame angel (came from display 15 days ago...misfit)
1 - 3.5-4” Swallowtail Angel (replacement from LFS 1 week ago)

I’m in no rush to get these fish to my display, my initial rounds of WC’s were a result of API tests being too high (despite possibly false positives)

What could be the issue here? I don’t overfeed, I keep things clean, monitor and WC regularly, I’m assuming the “cycle” has been delayed but why am I having this issue with all the effort made to use seeded media and additional bacteria?

Needless to say, it’s frustrating.

All advice appreciated
Sincerely,
P.T.S
(Plowing through salt)

 

[Smo]

Not sure what the issue is. The badge shows a hint of ammonia but the API test shows much more. What does it look like when you test your DT water?
Some medications can throw ammonia test kits off. That’s why folks rely on the badges. You actually may be OK. Any ammonia symptoms with the fish, rapid breathing, red gills?
I have a 29 G QT set up now with two AQ-50’s and an air driven sponge. Similar to you I used seeded sponges and ceramics media. Also bacteria-in-a-bottle. Had a hint of ammonia at around the seven day point but quickly went away and no problems since.

 

[DanielJameS]

I’ve run the whole range of tests with API on tap, DT etc all displaying 0 Ammo but it’s sort of moot with the meds.

I’ve been through this before so I know API specifically is unreliable, particularly with meds in the water, but it’s usually a weird light green not what I’m getting now, which is concerning particularly after the amount of water changes I’ve done.

I should have also added that API nitrite tests 0 and Salifert NO3 tests 2-5 (which seems to indicate some kind of functioning bio filter) I’m also running an air stone, plenty of oxygen.

Reason for this post is tonight The two angels are acting listless, not normal and active, hiding in the back, no piping at the top though. I do suspect ich but the problem is I can’t get on a solid continued med treatment with all this concern over ammonia which has me constantly swapping water. The minute I introduce CP I have to do a water change 3-5 days later a month into QT being setup, which is making the process next to impossible as ammonia is taking precedent at the moment.

 

[DanielJameS]

I suppose a test with something like a Seachem kit that measures free & total ammonia would tell more of the story? Maybe one of my LFS has one that could help me if I explained the situation.

I wouldn’t be worried if API was coming back with a tinge of green but that darker green result has me worried, it shouldn’t be that high at this point

 

[Maritimer]

It shouldn't ever be that high ...

Have you tried looking at the Seachem badge with the light above it, rather than behind?

~Bruce

 

[75galOCD]

I thought the test kits don't work with copper in the water thats why we use the tag? But I cant tell what your tags are reading what are you reading on the tag? nothing sticks out? I am just setting up my QT and also have the tag & I have no idea how to read it?
Thanks

 

[DanielJameS]

I thought the test kits don't work with copper in the water thats why we use the tag? But I cant tell what your tags are reading what are you reading on the tag? nothing sticks out? I am just setting up my QT and also have the tag & I have no idea how to read it?
Thanks

Medications and things like prime can “skew” the API kit because it measures both ammonium and standard ammonia, but even then it shouldn’t be dark green. I’m not using copper at the moment.

 

[Maritimer]

Liquid tests don't work well with copper in the water.

The badges can look a bit off, depending on how they're lit.

Often, it's a good idea to hold a flashlight or similar above the badge, so that it's lit well, with white light.

~Bruce

 

[DanielJameS]

It shouldn't ever be that high ...

Have you tried looking at the Seachem badge with the light above it, rather than behind?

~Bruce

I’ve actually looked at it all angles and with various light sources, kept in a cup of tank water. I’ve seen everything from light blue, to light green to yellow depending on the light source. The badge is undeniably yellow when you first get it, but I’ve found after being in saltwater, if you look at it without light behind it, it’s always a grayish to a weird green color. If you look at it from an angle or straight on with no light behind it. Considering how lethal ammonia can be, it leaves you feeling really uneasy.

 

[Don Lidtke]

Following, because I am having a similar problem with my IM 25 lagoon with which will be my fish quarantine tank.

 

[DanielJameS]

Liquid tests don't work well with copper in the water.

The badges can look a bit off, depending on how they're lit.

Often, it's a good idea to hold a flashlight or similar above the badge, so that it's lit well, with white light.

~Bruce

Thanks Bruce, but I actually don’t have any copper in the water ATM. The most recent thing in the water was General Cure. I have not used copper on this go-around (as of yet.)

 

[don_chuwish]

Add a bag of sand (like in a fine media bag) from the DT.
Agree though that you seem to have much higher levels than that bio load should generate. Something fishy here.

 

[DanielJameS]

Add a bag of sand (like in a fine media bag) from the DT.
Agree though that you seem to have much higher levels than that bio load should generate. Something fishy here.

[emoji23] Fishy indeed. This API kit is fresh out of the box and reading over around 2ppm. If you’ve ever held one of those badges over windex, it lights up blue like Violet in Willy Wonka! If the free ammonia was that high it should be totally obvious, I’m a bit perplexed.

 

[75galOCD]

Oh I thought copper was involved? But how do you read the badge anyway nothing is standing out under any light?
Thanks

 

[DanielJameS]

Oh I thought copper was involved?

Sorry i should have clarified I was abbreviating CP (chloroquine phosphate) but that has been out of the water due to me changing water and trying to figure out this ammonia issue.

But how do you read the badge anyway nothing is standing out under any light?
Thanks

You are “supposed” to view it with either the tank lights behind it, or some form of light backlighting it. However, based on those pictures you can clearly see one looks light green, the other looks yellow. I suspect also that LED lighting may skew the color. The picture in front of my bathroom vanity bulbs look totally yellow, and the iPhone doesn’t capture the nuance. In person, the colors in front of different light sources is all over the place.

 

[75galOCD]

So the reading is the color of the center I get it. Looks like .05
Thanks

 

[DanielJameS]

So the reading is the color of the center I get it.
Thanks

Hell if I know, that’s the dilemma. Particularly if you compare the discrepancy in the liquid test (all variables considered) to the badge, it’s a huge swing. One thing is for certain...it’s not blue.

 

[Smo]

I am partial to Red Sea test kits. Recommend another manufacture’s test kit to compare.

 

[Mini Coop]

Following because I tend to have similar QT issues.

 

[Gmj4409]

Hell if I know, that’s the dilemma. Particularly if you compare the discrepancy in the liquid test (all variables considered) to the badge, it’s a huge swing. One thing is for certain...it’s not blue.

I’ve had similar issues with ammonia tests. I’ve also used a lot of the ammonia badges & they have become my go-to measurement device. I use a light behind the badge. As already noted, I see one or two pics of slight ammonia but rest look ok. I’ve also had mixed results with different media to start the bacteria. I settled on a < $10 standalone sponge running on a small air pump & airstone. This setup with a dose of dr Tim’s (or any other start bacteria) has consistently performed across 6 or 7 QTs. You have a very strange thing occurring. Might be time to try something different. Good luck.