Help with Tangs please

[kiMxD]

You need to find a new LFS my friend.

A 25 gallon tank is not suitable for any tangs, let alone a hippo tang.

My tang (Kole tang in a 75 gallon tank) did the same thing when placed in a 30 gallon quarantine tank; Fell like a leaf and laid on her side breathing heavily. Its stress, and it is 100% caused by being placed in a cramped, new home. I'm sorry that you lost the hippo tang.

Please post the below.:

Temperature.: (in celcius or fahrenheit)
Salinity.: (in ppt or specific gravity)
Ammonia.: (in ppm)
Nitrite.: (in ppm)
Nitrate.: (in ppm)
What livestock do you have? Every other fish in the tank.


pH, Calcium, alkalinity, and other things are important for corals/inverts, but I don't think GH is the reason your hippo tang passed on. It is more then likely one of the above, that is what affects fish the most.


Your tank is still going through the ugly phases, based on your sand bed. I doubt it has fully finished cycling. I understand your dad is impulsive, but in the saltwater hobby time and patience is key to happy fish and happy owners, because nobody likes to see their fish suffering or die.... Or lose $100's of dollars in fish!

Well said Rover!

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

When you say "correct levels" in this forum, it means nothing to most of us. Would you be able to tell us what the levels are/were last time you checked? And what do you mean "GH is too high"? What is "GH"?

Oh sorry, true. Our nitrites and nitrates were at zero or negligible, pH at 7.8 and the general hardness(GH) is at 14. The only one that was isn't at the recommended level was kH sorry not GH, kH is the carbonate level and ours is around 20 and the recommended is around 10-15. It hasn't spiked though. Its been this way for weeks but we haven't been able to fix it as we only had tap water available which was the source of this problem(In the UK we have very hard water). We have done a water change with RODI though and hopefully the level has fallen. Btw all these levels and names of things are from our test kit so if its wrong please do tell me.

 

[Paul B]

My local shop has probably a dozen that are all pushing a foot long...... I thought they got closer to 14" or so

They may get that big, but even in the ocean I have not seen them that large. But I haven't seen every one yet.

 

[kiMxD]

Oh sorry, true. Our nitrites and nitrates were at zero or negligible, pH at 7.8 and the general hardness(GH) is at 14. The only one that was isn't at the recommended level was kH sorry not GH, kH is the carbonate level and ours is around 20 and the recommended is around 10-15. It hasn't spiked though. Its been this way for weeks but we haven't been able to fix it as we only had tap water available which was the source of this problem(In the UK we have very hard water). We have done a water change with RODI though and hopefully the level has fallen. Btw all these levels and names of things are from our test kit so if its wrong please do tell me.

It's fine, is just that we do not use general hardness or don't talk about it too much in the saltwater hobby IMO.
One thing I can tell you from what you wrote is that something is probably off with your test kits, judging by the pictures and the age of your tank there's no way you have ZERO or negligible No3. Also, what about your ammonia? Have you tested for it?

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

You need to find a new LFS my friend.

A 25 gallon tank is not suitable for any tangs, let alone a hippo tang.

My tang (Kole tang in a 75 gallon tank) did the same thing when placed in a 30 gallon quarantine tank; Fell like a leaf and laid on her side breathing heavily. Its stress, and it is 100% caused by being placed in a cramped, new home. I'm sorry that you lost the hippo tang.

Please post the below.:

Temperature.: (in celcius or fahrenheit)
Salinity.: (in ppt or specific gravity)
Ammonia.: (in ppm)
Nitrite.: (in ppm)
Nitrate.: (in ppm)
What livestock do you have? Every other fish in the tank.


pH, Calcium, alkalinity, and other things are important for corals/inverts, but I don't think GH is the reason your hippo tang passed on. It is more then likely one of the above, that is what affects fish the most.


Your tank is still going through the ugly phases, based on your sand bed. I doubt it has fully finished cycling. I understand your dad is impulsive, but in the saltwater hobby time and patience is key to happy fish and happy owners, because nobody likes to see their fish suffering or die.... Or lose $100's of dollars in fish!

After we have done the water change here are the params-
Temp- 26 celcius
Salinity - 1.025
Nitrate, nitrite are all registering as 0 on our test strips, and we have a ammonia tab thing that monitors levels and it says that the levels are safe
We have a false percula clown hosting a magnificent nem, a fire goby, two hermits, a blood shrimp and a royal gramma.

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

It's fine, is just that we do not use general hardness or don't talk about it too much in the saltwater hobby IMO.
One thing I can tell you from what you wrote is that something is probably off with your test kits, judging by the pictures and the age of your tank there's no way you have ZERO or negligible No3. Also, what about your ammonia? Have you tested for it?

We have a little indicator that stays in the tank it says that we have safe levels of ammonia which according to it is less than 0.02ppm

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

After we have done the water change here are the params-
Temp- 26 celcius
Salinity - 1.025
Nitrate, nitrite are all registering as 0 on our test strips, and we have a ammonia tab thing that monitors levels and it says that the levels are safe
We have a false percula clown hosting a magnificent nem, a fire goby, two hermits, a blood shrimp and a royal gramma.

Just saw on the indicator safe is les than 0.02ppm on it

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

We have a little indicator that stays in the tank it says that we have safe levels of ammonia which according to it is less than 0.02ppm

We bought another test kit from the lfs we trust(the ones that didn't have tangs) we are gonna do a test with those

 

[kiMxD]

Just saw on the indicator safe is les than 0.02ppm on it

Ok I guess I was right. Your tank isn't cycled if it still has any ammonia and nitrate, regardless of how much. Also, I'd strongly consider ditching "test strips" and ammonia badges/tabs, these are not your test kits if you are in this hobby long term. Look at Red Sea, Hanna, and Salifert test kits. Also, your livestock was too great for such a tiny tank. I'd say what you have right now minus the two tangs should be ideal.
Additionally, do you have a protein skimmer? Do you have a sump?

 

[kiMxD]

Test strips, ammonia badges/tabs usually work for short term goals, like a quarantine system or hospital tank. Definitely NOT long term projects, they are garbage.

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

Ok I guess I was right. Your tank isn't cycled if it still has any ammonia and nitrate, regardless of how much. Also, I'd strongly consider ditching "test strips" and ammonia badges/tabs, these are not your test kits if you are in this hobby long term. Look at Red Sea, Hanna, and Salifert test kits. Also, your livestock was too great for such a tiny tank. I'd say what you have right now minus the two tangs should be ideal.
Additionally, do you have a protein skimmer? Do you have a sump?

My dad just reminded me, he added in a surface skimmer he calls it. If thats what caused this what the heck!! Its been in for only a couple of hours! And we do have a protein skimmer but that has been in for roughly as long as the tangs.

 

[kiMxD]

My dad just reminded me, he added in a surface skimmer he calls it. If thats what caused this what the heck!! Its been in for only a couple of hours! And we do have a protein skimmer but that has been in for roughly as long as the tangs.

Buddy, I dont mean to offend you in any way, but you seem clueless about the hobby. I'd suggest you reading and watching videos on saltwater reef tanks. A great start would be to watch the 52 weeks of reefing from Bulk Reef Supply on youtube. You'll see how much more knowledgeable you'll get after that. It's worth the time.

For the record, a protein skimmer skims the water removing organics from it therefore cleaning your tank. Here's a link to BRS's (Bulk Reef Supply) video, start here please: - thanks me later.

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

Update 2 - 45 mins after water change with RODI water

Temp - 26

Nitrates and nitrites are showing up on the lowest counter of the test strips which is 0(Me and my dad will get proper test kits but we don't have the money right now so bare with us please)

pH is at 8
kH(Carbonates) - 180 ppm

Also my dad was being an egg. We don't need to measure GH according to him just kH so it was exceeding the recommended but that was normal as it is a salt water tank so it would be a false positive.

 

[Flippers4pups]

@Warlord of The Sea, sorry all of this happened to you and your dad!

There's been some good advice given. I want to say that reef hobbyist can be very passionate about the hobby and can at times be a little forward or hard to the point. That's expected. With that said, please don't feel overwhelmed and look at this as a learning experience.

We all are here to help and have made mistakes too.

Here's some good reading to go with @kiMxD videos:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/the-supreme-guide-to-setting-up-a-saltwater-reef-aquarium.84/

Hopefully you can rehome the yellow quickly to give it a fighting chance.

Keep us informed. Hang in there.

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

Buddy, I dont mean to offend you in any way, but you seem clueless about the hobby. I'd suggest you reading and watching videos on saltwater reef tanks. A great start would be to watch the 52 weeks of reefing from Bulk Reef Supply on youtube. You'll see how much more knowledgeable you'll get after that. It's worth the time.

For the record, a protein skimmer skims the water removing organics from it therefore cleaning your tank. Here's a link to BRS's (Bulk Reef Supply) video, start here please: - thanks me later.

Don't worry, no offence taken! We were given an explanation about the protein skimmer when we bought it at the lfs. It removes the proteins which accumulate on top by making a foam out of them and then collecting it in the tub, right? And I'm not gonna lie, my dad said I could leave water maintenance to him and I just had to check the fish in the tank, but after this I'm definitely going to take charge. Also I will check out the videos, thank you very much. I have two hours to kill soon so I will get through some then!

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

@Warlord of The Sea, sorry all of this happened to you and your dad!

There's been some good advice given. I want to say that reef hobbyist can be very passionate about the hobby and can at times be a little forward or hard to the point. That's expected. With that said, please don't feel overwhelmed and look at this as a learning experience.

We all are here to help and have made mistakes too.

Here's see good reading to go with @kiMxD videos:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/the-supreme-guide-to-setting-up-a-saltwater-reef-aquarium.84/

Hopefully you can rehome the yellow quickly to give it a fighting chance.

Keep us informed. Hang in there.

Don't worry, I believe everyone has been too nice to us in fact, lol! Once everyone asking how big the tank was I knew we had made a critical mistake.

 

[kiMxD]

Don't worry, no offence taken! We were given an explanation about the protein skimmer when we bought it at the lfs. It removes the proteins which accumulate on top by making a foam out of them and then collecting it in the tub, right? And I'm not gonna lie, my dad said I could leave water maintenance to him and I just had to check the fish in the tank, but after this I'm definitely going to take charge. Also I will check out the videos, thank you very much. I have two hours to kill soon so I will get through some then!

You are going to love it. This hobby is very satisfying but the learn curve can be rather steep. I wish you and your dad success and let us know if we can help ever again. For now, I'd suggest rehoming the yellow tang or taking it back to the store. You guys will end up upgrading your systems soon enough anyhow, this always happens lol.

 

[4FordFamily]

You have three likely issues, two are certain and I will start with those

1) You have a new tank that is not cycled enough for any fish, let alone sensitive fish like tangs. Any ammonia at all can and does kill, nitrite is less toxic but still indicative of an immature tank. The way that your tank looks is also an indicator that you're still cycling. It's likely to get worse before it gets better, aesthetically.

2) Your tank is WAY too small for even a single small tang, let alone two decent-sized tangs. They swim vast distances in the wild, as mentioned. A stressed fish can succumb to nearly anything, and these conditions would without a doubt be immensely stressful with the cramped space and uncycled water

3) It's possible that you are also dealing with parasites, perhaps even likely. I assume you've not quarantined your fish, and with these other two immense stress factors nearly any parasite infestation could very easily get the upper hand. Flukes, ich, velvet, uronema, and infections are common. I don't see any obvious symptoms of any of these in the photos, however with the immense levels of stress present it's not likely that the parasite would have to advance past the gill infestation stage before the fish perishes. In other words, in a remotely healthy or less stressed fish, it would eventually get spots if it had ich or velvet on the exterior of the fish, typically. In these conditions it wouldn't need to advance to that stage to be fatal, most likely.

I'd rehome the fish and avoid angelfish/tangs or any kind for a tank of that size. Slow down and do your research, don't rely on any LFS (particularly the one that sold you thsoe fish) for information. Some good LFS exist but many have employees that haven't a clue, don't care, or simply just want to make the sale and aren't worried about the aftermath.

Suitable tankmates would include gobies and the like.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Don't worry, I believe everyone has been too nice to us in fact, lol! Once everyone asking how big the tank was I knew we had made a critical mistake.

When I started out, I lost $300+ in fish to Ich. It was a hard lesson to learn.

I still research anything and everything before buying anything. Saves money, but more importantly keeps the animals I chose to be responsible for healthy and happy.

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

You have three likely issues, two are certain and I will start with those

1) You have a new tank that is not cycled enough for any fish, let alone sensitive fish like tangs. Any ammonia at all can and does kill, nitrite is less toxic but still indicative of an immature tank. The way that your tank looks is also an indicator that you're still cycling. It's likely to get worse before it gets better, aesthetically.

2) Your tank is WAY too small for even a single small tang, let alone two decent-sized tangs. They swim vast distances in the wild, as mentioned. A stressed fish can succumb to nearly anything, and these conditions would without a doubt be immensely stressful with the cramped space and uncycled water

3) It's possible that you are also dealing with parasites, perhaps even likely. I assume you've not quarantined your fish, and with these other two immense stress factors nearly any parasite infestation could very easily get the upper hand. Flukes, ich, velvet, uronema, and infections are common. I don't see any obvious symptoms of any of these in the photos, however with the immense levels of stress present it's not likely that the parasite would have to advance past the gill infestation stage before the fish perishes. In other words, in a remotely healthy or less stressed fish, it would eventually get spots if it had ich or velvet on the exterior of the fish, typically. In these conditions it wouldn't need to advance to that stage to be fatal, most likely.

I'd rehome the fish and avoid angelfish/tangs or any kind for a tank of that size. Slow down and do your research, don't rely on any LFS (particularly the one that sold you thsoe fish) for information. Some good LFS exist but many have employees that haven't a clue, don't care, or simply just want to make the sale and aren't worried about the aftermath.

Suitable tankmates would include gobies and the like.

Yeah the lfs that is helping us right now is a couple who are the only employees there. They said the same thing as you guys once we went to confer with them. Sadly my friend is only interested in big fish as he only has large fish in his tanks so the small ones would be bullied. I do agree about the tank not being cycled but all the other livestock are fine and the test keep coming up negative for any, so what does that mean?! And thanks for the reply btw