Help with Tangs please

[Warlord of The Sea]

When I started out, I lost $300+ in fish to Ich. It was a hard lesson to learn.

I still research anything and everything before buying anything. Saves money, but more importantly keeps the animals I chose to be responsible for healthy and happy.

So for my remaining livestock, are there any tell tale indicators? They seem healthy and unstressed. Our nem is particularly happy I believe.

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

Btw heres my whole tank set up. You can see the yellow in the reflection. He is still breathing.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Btw heres my whole tank set up. You can see the yellow in the reflection. He is still breathing.

Nem looks very bleached, unfortunately. They should be added to a mature tank, not one still cycling. Respectfully.

The yellow, will most likely die if you don't remove it and get back to a LFS asap. @4FordFamily's information is soild. Act quickly.

Clowns are from the damsel family and are tough fish, tangs are delicate to water conditions. Any fish can die from ammonia.

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

Regarding the nem
1) Sorry but the photo is really bad We had a white light on and I took the photo really quickly so I think it looks whiter than it actually is.
2) We bought it from the same store as we bought the tangs and me and my dad are sure its still the same colour as it was then so it came bleached from the store(Once again we got screwed backwards and sideways)
Also don't worry about offending us, any criticism is well deserved after this fiasco.

 

[kiMxD]

So for my remaining livestock, are there any tell tale indicators? They seem healthy and unstressed. Our nem is particularly happy I believe.

Get a decent test kit as soon as you can afford one. In the meantime, take a sample of your water to be tested at your LFS, most LFS's will test for you for a small fee or for free.

 

[hdsoftail1065]

No worries my young friend, you are learning a hard lesson, but you are not the first to learn the hard way. You have discovered that this hobby is more than adding water to a glass box and dumping in fish. There is a little homework involved and a lot of responsibility. I have no doubt you will become a great reefer because it is obvious you care and want to learn. R2R isn't about criticism, it is about helping each other succeed. You always have people to lean on for help or advice, all you have to do is ask. If you post a question with no response or feel embarrassed to ask a question all you have to do is call in the #reefsquad or PM one of us and we will be happy to help in anyway possible.

 

[kiMxD]

Btw heres my whole tank set up. You can see the yellow in the reflection. He is still breathing.

It's only few hours until the yellow tang dies. I'd do one of the two:

1) Bag him and take to the LFS as soon as possible;

2) If you have salt and RODI on hand, mix about 2 gallons and put him on a separate bucket with freshly mixed salt water until you can take him to the LFS.

 

[kiMxD]

No worries my young friend, you are learning a hard lesson, but you are not the first to learn the hard way. You have discovered that this hobby is more than adding water to a glass box and dumping in fish. There is a little homework involved and a lot of responsibility. I have no doubt you will become a great reefer because it is obvious you care and want to learn. R2R isn't about criticism, it is about helping each other succeed. You always have people to lean on for help or advice, all you have to do is ask. If you post a question with no response or feel embarrassed to ask a question all you have to do is call in the #reefaquad or PM one of us and we will be happy to help in anyway possible.

Great advice! That's we're all about! Just a correction: #reefsquad

 

[hdsoftail1065]

Great advice! That's we're all about! Just a correction: #reefsquad

Ha! Fat fingers and small phone! Thank you

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

It's only few hours until the yellow tang dies. I'd do one of the two:

1) Bag him and take to the LFS as soon as possible;

2) If you have salt and RODI on hand, mix about 2 gallons and put him on a separate bucket with freshly mixed salt water until you can take him to the LFS.

We had mixed some water and taken him to the LFS that sold him to us. Obviously they don't want him back and the helpful couple lfs don't have any tank space so it would be the same situation there or here unfortunately. dang i feel so annoyed, I hope he pulls through so we can have some more time to relocate him.

 

[Adamantium]

Its been running for at least 2 months and a half. I told my dad we should wait before getting tangs but he wanted some cool fish. We got both tangs from the same seller, acclimated and added them. The hippo seemed stressed for the first few hours(constantly scratching) but then relaxed, and up until today they were swimming, interacting with other tankmates and even had a night routine( Yellow would retire to the front corner and hippo would lie in her alcove). The seller asked us our tank size and sold us both tangs so I feel played now.

It's an unfortunate reality, but seller's have an incentive to, well, sell, so they can give bad advice. Always do your own.

It's the same in my other hobby, bonsai. Sellers will tell you you can keep a juniper indoors, when they truly need to be outdoors, and even have to experience winter dormancy. Indoors, they last months, at best.

 

[BestMomEver]

I hate this for you. I’m so sorry. It really makes me angry that LFS employees do this kind of stuff. You have done nothing wrong except count on the supposed expertise of people that should know what they’re doing. It’s a hard lesson to learn.

After all this is over, I recommend you start learning everything you can. Read, read, read.... if you want info on a particular fish, www.liveaquaria.com is a great place to start.

My second suggestion (after you get some test kits), is to invest in a small tank to quarantine fish in. I would resist the urge to buy any more fish until you can get one. When you’re ready to QT, come here. We have some VERY knowledgeable folks that are experts in quarantine and fish diseases.

Good luck... and welcome to the reef!

 

[4FordFamily]

Yeah the lfs that is helping us right now is a couple who are the only employees there. They said the same thing as you guys once we went to confer with them. Sadly my friend is only interested in big fish as he only has large fish in his tanks so the small ones would be bullied. I do agree about the tank not being cycled but all the other livestock are fine and the test keep coming up negative for any, so what does that mean?! And thanks for the reply btw

One additional issue with new tanks isn't necessarily the parameters at any moment in time, but the lack of stability. They swing, and this can be equally as troublesome for fish. After removal of the hippo tang, ammonia is less likely to be present because there is less of a bio-load in the tank. A couple of things to keep in mind.

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

Update 3 - Yellow tang is gone now as well.
I just feel drained now... I can't deal with the fish right now as me and my dad have had to leave the house for other business. We definitely won't be patrons of that other fish store any longer and my dad has agreed to lay off any lifestock purchases for the time being and consult with me before hand. Anyway we have to keep on going and now we are worried about our other livestock. Do we need to watch out for any signs and is there anything we can do now as preventative measures.

 

[4FordFamily]

Update 3 - Yellow tang is gone now as well.
I just feel drained now... I can't deal with the fish right now as me and my dad have had to leave the house for other business. We definitely won't be patrons of that other fish store any longer and my dad has agreed to lay off any lifestock purchases for the time being and consult with me before hand. Anyway we have to keep on going and now we are worried about our other livestock. Do we need to watch out for any signs and is there anything we can do now as preventative measures.

Sorry for the loss.

Heavy breathing, spots/dustings, flashing, hiding from light, cryptic behavior, loss of color, etc. are all things to watch for. Assuredly, with the reduced bio-load from the loss of two large, dirty fish (tangs are high bio load fish) ammonia is less likely to be problematic, but still not stable.

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

Cool thanks a lot

 

[hdsoftail1065]

Update 3 - Yellow tang is gone now as well.
I just feel drained now... I can't deal with the fish right now as me and my dad have had to leave the house for other business. We definitely won't be patrons of that other fish store any longer and my dad has agreed to lay off any lifestock purchases for the time being and consult with me before hand. Anyway we have to keep on going and now we are worried about our other livestock. Do we need to watch out for any signs and is there anything we can do now as preventative measures.

sorry to hear this.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

@Warlord of The Sea I have personally never seen a fish laying on its side with labored breathing actually pull through. There are a couple things I have observed from your thread. You are very receptive to advice given by experienced individuals, this will invariably make you successful. That is not to say all the advice is correct, but being open to learning is critical in this hobby. There are great articles and threads that help learn without having to experience the failure. Secondly you made a mistake with these fish, we have all been there. I can't think of anyone that has a tank that did everything correct from day one. Learn from your mistakes and keep trucking on.

 

[Rover]

Thank you for posting the parameters. Sorry to hear about your yellow tang!

Some things.:

• You don't really need to bother measuring KH and GH, those kits are probably more for freshwater. When you make RODI water you remove the components that actually make up your KH and GH. These numbers are not really important in saltwater, as when you add salt to your tank you DRASTICALLY influence them because thats what is causing the general hardness. KH is tied to Alkalinity, and you'd be far better off getting a real alkalinity test.
• Your temperature is good where it is.
• I am assuming you are using the SeaChem Badge that goes in the tank for ammonia? These are good for quarantine with copper medications but aren't very precise. When you have the money I'd suggest investing in a more accurate ammonia test... Only trust the badge to indicate the presence of ammonia, not a real number. Any ammonia is not good, though not immediately fatal. It probably was a minor contributing factor to the Tangs deaths.
• Your nitrite being zero is good. Thats what you want.
• Your nitrate being zero is ~somewhat~ good. You don't want ZERO because your corals will starve, but I can hazard a guess its not a true zero. Its mostly being bound up or used in the algae/growths that you have in the tank.
• Firegobies are beautiful fish and are appropriately sized for your tank.
• Royal grammas are on the upper edge of what is appropriate for your tank, but this should not be a problem, so long as you don't overload the tank.
• Clownfish is more then fine in a tank that size.

The best advise I can give you right now is stop adding things. Set yourself a timer for at least a full month, and just watch your tank... Observe the fish and their behaviors, watch as algae grows and fades, look for new growths, explore what you have but don't fall to temptation and cram more corals or fish in there. A young tank is a dirty tank that is prone to swings, and swings are what causes huge problems for invertebrates and corals. Fish can be more tolerant of swings, but they don't like it either!

Best of luck, and drop that LFS! You can still buy from them (I wouldn't support the business) but I'd research heavily before buying anything and don't take their word on whether or not something will be healthy for your tank. Remember they are a business... Some LFS' want you to succeed, some want you to buy stuff. The guy local to me out and out refuses to sell people certain fish if he knows their setups won't be able to handle it.

 

[Warlord of The Sea]

Thank you for posting the parameters. Sorry to hear about your yellow tang!

Some things.:

• You don't really need to bother measuring KH and GH, those kits are probably more for freshwater. When you make RODI water you remove the components that actually make up your KH and GH. These numbers are not really important in saltwater, as when you add salt to your tank you DRASTICALLY influence them because thats what is causing the general hardness. KH is tied to Alkalinity, and you'd be far better off getting a real alkalinity test.
• Your temperature is good where it is.
• I am assuming you are using the SeaChem Badge that goes in the tank for ammonia? These are good for quarantine with copper medications but aren't very precise. When you have the money I'd suggest investing in a more accurate ammonia test... Only trust the badge to indicate the presence of ammonia, not a real number. Any ammonia is not good, though not immediately fatal. It probably was a minor contributing factor to the Tangs deaths.
• Your nitrite being zero is good. Thats what you want.
• Your nitrate being zero is ~somewhat~ good. You don't want ZERO because your corals will starve, but I can hazard a guess its not a true zero. Its mostly being bound up or used in the algae/growths that you have in the tank.
• Firegobies are beautiful fish and are appropriately sized for your tank.
• Royal grammas are on the upper edge of what is appropriate for your tank, but this should not be a problem, so long as you don't overload the tank.
• Clownfish is more then fine in a tank that size.

The best advise I can give you right now is stop adding things. Set yourself a timer for at least a full month, and just watch your tank... Observe the fish and their behaviors, watch as algae grows and fades, look for new growths, explore what you have but don't fall to temptation and cram more corals or fish in there. A young tank is a dirty tank that is prone to swings, and swings are what causes huge problems for invertebrates and corals. Fish can be more tolerant of swings, but they don't like it either!

Best of luck, and drop that LFS! You can still buy from them (I wouldn't support the business) but I'd research heavily before buying anything and don't take their word on whether or not something will be healthy for your tank. Remember they are a business... Some LFS' want you to succeed, some want you to buy stuff. The guy local to me out and out refuses to sell people certain fish if he knows their setups won't be able to handle it.

Thanks for the info dump and i will definitely take it to heart