Help with Water Quality (Rapid Fish Death)

[Lasse]

Its the tank a DIY - do you know which silicon glue the tank have?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Maybe I missed it, but what type of filtration are you using? How much flow is in the tank? (Looking at oxygen/gas exchange)

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

And did you double check the salinity? Calibrate whatever instrument you're using?

 

[Uncle99]

maybe not chlorine but cloramine.
A disinfectant for drinking water
Common additive in water.
But very toxic to fish.
There’s a carbon block for that
Doesn’t show as TDS

 

[InTentsReef]

Salinity checked via refraction. I have calibrated it and seemingly fine.

There is ROX carbon in the filter area. Along with GFO.

It’s an innovative marine 20 gal peninsula tank with a rear 3 chamber filter system. I ran this exact tank back stateside and shipped it (empty) to the UK to set it up. There is the filter media in the rear along with a heater and probes for the Apex. I have the return pump for flow along with an MP10.

Regarding air quality - the UK doesn’t have central heat. So open windows to move air in the house. No candles, sprays, oils, etc.

 

[InTentsReef]

Maybe I missed it, but what type of filtration are you using? How much flow is in the tank? (Looking at oxygen/gas exchange)

I don’t have a skimmer (too small of a tank), so air exchange comes from turbidity from power head and overflow / return. I don’t have a way to measure gas exchange but I have wondered about the same.

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

I don't think the issue is an illness , again because the fish died so quickly.
Glad your salinity is OK. In the states, many fish stores run salinity at 1. 20 while most hobbyists target 1.025-1.026. When that difference is detected the upward adjustment should be done over days, not hours.
Chlorine and ammonia can be rapid killers. I personally have lost confidence in test strips but your products may be much better than what I've seen.

I ended up taking a clownfish in distress home from an LFS and their salinity tested at 1.018 and they said it was normal range. I keep mine between 1.023-1.024.

 

[InTentsReef]

I’m 99.9% sure this is not a salinity problem. I tested the LFS water from the bag and measured my tank. They were basically the same salinity (or within 1ppm). Still, drip acclimating for an hour would offset that anyway.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I ended up taking a clownfish in distress home from an LFS and their salinity tested at 1.018 and they said it was normal range. I keep mine between 1.023-1.024.

That is not uncommon; fish are fine with salinity as low as 1.010. You just need to acclimate them more slowly (better yet, change the tank salinity to match what they are used to and increase over several days via top off)

 

[undermind]

In the states, many fish stores run salinity at 1. 20 while most hobbyists target 1.025-1.026. When that difference is detected the upward adjustment should be done over days, not hours.
Chlorine and ammonia can be rapid killers. I personally have lost confidence in test strips but your products may be much better than what I've seen.

I agree with this, salinity was my first thought and some toxin was my second thought. Both of these mainly because of the quickness of death. Rapid salinity changes can cause rapid death, because of huge sudden fluid shifts within the organism to equilibrate with the environment. If the difference in salinity is large enough, the acclimation period will need to be days and not minutes to hours. In humans we try to avoid changing blood sodium levels by more than 0.5mEq/L per hour because rapid changes in sodium can cause fluid to shift between compartments of the body and cause things like swelling in the brain. What method do you use to measure salinity? Even if the actual number is inaccurate, you should at least be able to compare the difference between the water they are in from the lfs and what your water currently is. I believe there is a stickie thread about hypo salinity and there is mention of how quick you can change the salinity. IF they are the same then you can rule that out, just be sure they are measured with the same exact device.

When it comes to toxins, you can try adding activated charcoal to the tank to absorb anything that might not be picked up on by ICP tests. The only problem is that it will be harder to know the source of the toxin or what the toxin is if you are just removing it with the charcoal. If it is something leaching into the water from something in the tank, it is probably better to remove/replace whatever it is than it is to just absorb the toxin with the charcoal. If you still have the dead fish you might be able to look for somewhere you can send them to be tested for heavy metals or toxicology screening.

Hope this helps, good luck!

While I agree on all of the above and the importance of adjusting salinity slowly for fish acclimation, in my experience it is not an absolute that rapid changes in salinity actually kill fish with any regularity.

Example: I've been watching my LFS process orders of new fish shipments for many years. I try to show up in this window so I can snag fish before they're unbagged. The LFS floats the bags while unboxing, then releases the fish straight into all the tanks. I always check salinity in the fish bag and these fish are going from 1.018 to 1.026 in the store with NO salinity acclimation.

I also imagine this is the practice in most LFS's around the world. In fact, I've never seen an LFS employ a system of salinity acclimating fish over several days.

I doubt this is @Gotgills issue.

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

While I agree on all of the above and the importance of adjusting salinity slowly for fish acclimation, in my experience it is not an absolute that rapid changes in salinity actually kill fish with any regularity.

Example: I've been watching my LFS process orders of new fish shipments for many years. I try to show up in this window so I can snag fish before they're unbagged. The LFS floats the bags while unboxing, then releases the fish straight into all the tanks. I always check salinity in the fish bag and these fish are going from 1.018 to 1.026 in the store with NO salinity acclimation.

I also imagine this is the practice in most LFS's around the world. In fact, I've never seen an LFS employ a system of salinity acclimating fish over several days.

I doubt this is @Gotgills issue.

Yeah that is a good point and most fish do just fine doing freshwater dips which is a huge osmotic shock but its easy enough to rule out by testing salinity in both systems. I would agree, I don't think it is common for this to occur at least for fish (probably more common in inverts) but its always a possibility. Toxins are much higher up on the list for me, than a salinity issue.

 

[Rick's Reviews]

While I agree on all of the above and the importance of adjusting salinity slowly for fish acclimation, in my experience it is not an absolute that rapid changes in salinity actually kill fish with any regularity.

Example: I've been watching my LFS process orders of new fish shipments for many years. I try to show up in this window so I can snag fish before they're unbagged. The LFS floats the bags while unboxing, then releases the fish straight into all the tanks. I always check salinity in the fish bag and these fish are going from 1.018 to 1.026 in the store with NO salinity acclimation.

I also imagine this is the practice in most LFS's around the world. In fact, I've never seen an LFS employ a system of salinity acclimating fish over several days.

I doubt this is @Gotgills issue.

Maybe go back to basics, start from testing your water parimiters with more accurate test kits, if your fish are dying suddenly within this very short period than something is seriously wrong with your aquarium/water, I see so many thoughts/suggestions/ answers from this community to your problem but you seem to disregard/ not accept them/ counter challange?
From researching..... the best solution is a strip down of your aquarium then start again, it may pain you but better than keep adding livestock for death sentence

 

[InTentsReef]

Maybe go back to basics, start from testing your water parimiters with more accurate test kits, if your fish are dying suddenly within this very short period than something is seriously wrong with your aquarium/water, I see so many thoughts/suggestions/ answers from this community to your problem but you seem to disregard/ not accept them/ counter challange?
From researching..... the best solution is a strip down of your aquarium then start again, it may pain you but better than keep adding livestock for death sentence

Not trying to not accept any feedback — but I am pushing back on things that aren’t likely culprits (salinity). Sending off the ICP is part of validating the testing I’m doing at home with a more accurate kit. I’m not proposing adding livestock until I know what the problem might be, and looking for help for ideas that I might not have thought of / someone with more expertise. Asking questions and having a dialogue is certainly a reasonable step before tearing down the tank.

 

[Rick's Reviews]

Not trying to not accept any feedback — but I am pushing back on things that aren’t likely culprits (salinity). Sending off the ICP is part of validating the testing I’m doing at home with a more accurate kit. I’m not proposing adding livestock until I know what the problem might be, and looking for help for ideas that I might not have thought of / someone with more expertise. Asking questions and having a dialogue is certainly a reasonable step before tearing down the tank.

I agree, but everything suggested to you that may be the cause you have just passed off like you know the answer, I find reef2reef is a great community for suggestions not answers but it's down to the individual to research and maintain/ take appropriate course of action as each aquriam is different.... It just pains me when a post about fish dying when the op does not do proper research before introducing and than l ask questions after/ later...
Good luck with your aquarium

 

[undermind]

I agree, but everything suggested to you that may be the cause you have just passed off like you know the answer, I find reef2reef is a great community for suggestions not answers but it's down to the individual to research and maintain/ take appropriate course of action as each aquriam is different.... It just pains me when a post about fish dying when the op does not do proper research before introducing and than l ask questions after/ later...
Good luck with your aquarium

I don't think he's passing off people's suggestions or questions. He's answering them and the questions being asked haven't led anywhere useful just yet. I think it's mostly coincidence that it "appears" that way to you.

He's had a thoughtful approach to the whole situation, but there just isn't a lot to grasp at right now. But eventually, somebody might suggest something that he hasn't checked; and in that case, I'm sure he'll be happy it was asked.

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

I would check for hydrogen sulfide gas. Source will be unoxygenated sand or media. Reactors will very very slow movement of water. Calcium reactor or sulfur denitrator etc.
If fish act loopy and swimming around with hard labour breath and acting drunk that would be your cause.

 

[Reef.]

Not read the full thread so sorry if this has been mentioned…which Tropic Marin salt? If the Pro your alk is way to high for that salt, add in you are only running 33ppt, unless you are dosing? So could be a salinity issue.

 

[InTentsReef]

I don't think he's passing off people's suggestions or questions. He's answering them and the questions being asked haven't led anywhere useful just yet. I think it's mostly coincidence that it "appears" that way to you.

He's had a thoughtful approach to the whole situation, but there just isn't a lot to grasp at right now. But eventually, somebody might suggest something that he hasn't checked; and in that case, I'm sure he'll be happy it was asked.

Definitely not passing off any suggestions. Trying to have a dialogue. I think the suggestion of enough air exchange is a valid one — though not sure how to check that. Likewise, will hope that ICP offers insight into a heavy metal….

PS - he is actually a “she” reefer. I know we are rare breeds!

 

[InTentsReef]

I would check for hydrogen sulfide gas. Source will be unoxygenated sand or media. Reactors will very very slow movement of water. Calcium reactor or sulfur denitrator etc.
If fish act loopy and swimming around with hard labour breath and acting drunk that would be your cause.

I don’t have a reactor, and I have siphoned at the sand when I was trying to remove dust after starting the tank.

The fish wasn’t acting loopy or drunk before it died. Heavy breathing and kinda laid in the sand, then would get up, swim for a second, and lay in the sand again. Spine curved when it expired, but I’m not sure that’s indicative of anything.

 

[InTentsReef]

Not read the full thread so sorry if this has been mentioned…which Tropic Marin salt? If the Pro your alk is way to high for that salt, add in you are only running 33ppt, unless you are dosing? So could be a salinity issue.

No corals so not dosing any alk supplements right now. The alk level is whatever I’m getting from the salt. It’s the Bio-Activ salt.