How long to win the battle when using UV for dinos ?

[Quietman]

Long term report since I saw the response above to my post.

So far, since my last little error in reducing the flow (think that was over a year ago) with my flow consistent I haven't seen dinos return. I changed out the UV bulb at the 15-16 month point (couple months ago) before it degraded below 80% (I'm pulling these numbers from memory - but design exposure from AquaUV is based on EOL at 15 months). I keep flow at about 8x now just because that's what I do and don't see any reason to change. Haven't lost any fish since those bad old dino days either. Can't say that's the UV of course, but can't say it's not either. Probably can't prove my dino eradication is UV either but I'm a believer enough that new tank (this summer) is going to have permanent, dedicated closed loop UV flow at least 8x turnover and I'm planning on well over 90000 uw/cm2 at 8x (oversize by current thinking).

Side note: Not a huge fan of peroxide - a negative response from my soft corals of all things. My weeping willow toadstool and red xenia (normally bullet proof, right?) retracted and didn't fully recover for months from a very light (10 ml/gal - 5 min) 3% peroxide dip for algae. Now I'm sure they might have been already weakened as they made it through all the dino/dinox. Because I know that reaction is NOT supposed to happen but it did so it's in the 'emergency use' only shelf with the dinox. Meaning, is it bad enough to wreck my tank to save it? Sometimes that answer is yes.

And just FYI - my tank as been naturally low nutrients since almost day one. By naturally, I mean I don't try to keep it low...it's just there. I can not test for weeks and when I do it's invariably - 1-3 ppm N and .01-.02 ppm P but never 0. If the tank likes it and things are growing well - who am I to argue. I know there's a wide range and soft/LPS usually run higher but fish and coral are healthy and I see no reason to supplement nutrients.

Full disclosure - I also swapped out the skimmer 8-9 months ago for an ATS and stopped water changes. I do think the UV allows me to do that safer but it's not something I recommend to new folks or to fix any ongoing problems. Love the ATS btw. And my ICP testing is spot on as of 2 months ago. I stopped WC as I was curious if they were doing anything measurable.

 

[Idech]

Well, I hope I don’t have to run the UV permanently because without a sump, it has to sit right in front of the tank and it’s pretty ugly.

I still have a small patch of dinos that comes back in the morning. I’ve done peroxyde for 6-7 days now so I’ll stop. Hopefully just stirring the sand and the UV will take care of it. I’ll run it for at least 3 more weeks.

 

[Dav2996]

I’ve hooked up the UV sterilizer and I’m doing the peroxyde treatment for dinos. It’s really p…. me off and making me disinterested in the tank. I feel like I’m starting over and it’s just not a good feeling. I don’t understand why it’s happening either, which is adding to the grief.

The UV is right in front of the tank, since I don‘t have a sump. It’s just an eye sore. I haven’t scrubbed the glass for 8-10 days and it’s looking brown and dirty. And the window blue light is so depressing.

I’m just not into it. It will come back. Eventually.

You can buy a hang on the back one for the back of the tank. I have a nano tank all in one nuvo and they have designed for my tank that fits.

 

[Dav2996]

Long term report since I saw the response above to my post.

So far, since my last little error in reducing the flow (think that was over a year ago) with my flow consistent I haven't seen dinos return. I changed out the UV bulb at the 15-16 month point (couple months ago) before it degraded below 80% (I'm pulling these numbers from memory - but design exposure from AquaUV is based on EOL at 15 months). I keep flow at about 8x now just because that's what I do and don't see any reason to change. Haven't lost any fish since those bad old dino days either. Can't say that's the UV of course, but can't say it's not either. Probably can't prove my dino eradication is UV either but I'm a believer enough that new tank (this summer) is going to have permanent, dedicated closed loop UV flow at least 8x turnover and I'm planning on well over 90000 uw/cm2 at 8x (oversize by current thinking).

Side note: Not a huge fan of peroxide - a negative response from my soft corals of all things. My weeping willow toadstool and red xenia (normally bullet proof, right?) retracted and didn't fully recover for months from a very light (10 ml/gal - 5 min) 3% peroxide dip for algae. Now I'm sure they might have been already weakened as they made it through all the dino/dinox. Because I know that reaction is NOT supposed to happen but it did so it's in the 'emergency use' only shelf with the dinox. Meaning, is it bad enough to wreck my tank to save it? Sometimes that answer is yes.

And just FYI - my tank as been naturally low nutrients since almost day one. By naturally, I mean I don't try to keep it low...it's just there. I can not test for weeks and when I do it's invariably - 1-3 ppm N and .01-.02 ppm P but never 0. If the tank likes it and things are growing well - who am I to argue. I know there's a wide range and soft/LPS usually run higher but fish and coral are healthy and I see no reason to supplement nutrients.

Full disclosure - I also swapped out the skimmer 8-9 months ago for an ATS and stopped water changes. I do think the UV allows me to do that safer but it's not something I recommend to new folks or to fix any ongoing problems. Love the ATS btw. And my ICP testing is spot on as of 2 months ago. I stopped WC as I was curious if they were doing anything measurable.

Everything is a battle in salt water it’s not for everyone but I got through it. You just got to do your best. I did it so can you.

 

[Idech]

After doing UV and peroxyde for 10-12 days, I stopped today. Whatever it is isn’t being destroyed by this treatment. I can’t have the lights at 15%-20% forever.

I am hoping it’s diatoms and that it will go away on its own. I will update.

 

[Dav2996]

After doing UV and peroxyde for 10-12 days, I stopped today. Whatever it is isn’t being destroyed by this treatment. I can’t have the lights at 15%-20% forever.

I am hoping it’s diatoms and that it will go away on its own. I will update.

I wouldn’t use peroxide in a reef tank your killing the good algae and the bad. You want the good algae to out compete the bad algae. Also is the UV the right watts for your tank? If it’s the wrong watt it won’t fix the problem.

 

[Dav2996]

After doing UV and peroxyde for 10-12 days, I stopped today. Whatever it is isn’t being destroyed by this treatment. I can’t have the lights at 15%-20% forever.

I am hoping it’s diatoms and that it will go away on its own. I will update.

What is your nitrate level or phosphate level?

 

[Idech]

I wouldn’t use peroxide in a reef tank your killing the good algae and the bad. You want the good algae to out compete the bad algae. Also is the UV the right watts for your tank? If it’s the wrong watt it won’t fix the problem.

It’s a recipe that I found here and that is recommended and used by many without problems. I’ve used it once before. It was dinos and it worked.

UV is 15 watts I believe. I asked the cie and they said it would be okay for my tank. Maybe they lied. I also did some research. I would have liked 25 watts better but it was a lot more expensive.

What is your nitrate level or phosphate level?

Nitrates are 12 ppm and phosphates 0.03 ppm. They’ve been like that for 2-3 months. My tank is 8 months old.

 

[Dav2996]

It’s a recipe that I found here and that is recommended and used by many without problems. I’ve used it once before. It was dinos and it worked.

UV is 15 watts I believe. I asked the cie and they said it would be okay for my tank. Maybe they lied. I also did some research. I would have liked 25 watts better but it was a lot more expensive.


Nitrates are 12 ppm and phosphates 0.03 ppm. They’ve been like that for 2-3 months. My tank is 8

It’s a recipe that I found here and that is recommended and used by many without problems. I’ve used it once before. It was dinos and it worked.

UV is 15 watts I believe. I asked the cie and they said it would be okay for my tank. Maybe they lied. I also did some research. I would have liked 25 watts better but it was a lot more expensive.


Nitrates are 12 ppm and phosphates 0.03 ppm. They’ve been like that for 2-3 months. My tank is 8 months old

My UV is 15 watt but it has to have a speed of 230 gallon per hour through it to kill the dinos. If the water is not pumped at the right speed it will go through too fast not to kill any of the dinos if it goes too fast.

sometimes low nitrates like 0 can cause dinos.
I have also had hair algae look like dinos because I use phosphate remover. Phosphate remover remover the phosphate and turned the hair algae brown. It could be somthing else. I am trying to help.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

I also got ostreopsis but I was given much different advice on UV size and flowrate than what you were given and it seems to be working extremely well.

I was told 1 watt per 3 gallons and 3x tank turnover. I have a 65 gallon tank and have a 27W running at 180 gph. Took two days to almost completely eradicate them. There are still a couple stragglers at the very top of the tank, but 95% of what was there is gone now.

 

[Dav2996]

I also got ostreopsis but I was given much different advice on UV size and flowrate than what you were given and it seems to be working extremely well.

I was told 1 watt per 3 gallons and 3x tank turnover. I have a 65 gallon tank and have a 27W running at 180 gph. Took two days to almost completely eradicate them. There are still a couple stragglers at the very top of the tank, but 95% of what was there is gone now.

That’s what happened in my tank but it’s a 20 gallon tank. It brush it off than it’s eradicated. That why I was telling him it could be somthing else like hair algae.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

That’s what happened in my tank but it’s a 20 gallon tank. It brush it off than it’s eradicated. That why I was telling him it could be somthing else like hair algae.

Hard to mistake dinos when it's hair algae. Dino vs diatom is hard to differentiate, but unless there is abundant silica present it's almost always dinos.

I think you hit the nail with the flowrate. I just checked AquaUVs specs and they recommend 233gph for protozoa and @saltyhog and @ScottB mentioned the contact time needs to be on the high end due to their armor (ie should be closer to minimum protozoa flowrate not maximum). OP has it set for the flowrate recommended to kill algae, which is exactly the opposite of what you want to do. That's just going to give the ostreo fewer competitors.

 

[Idech]

My UV is 15 watt but it has to have a speed of 230 gallon per hour through it to kill the dinos. If the water is not pumped at the right speed it will go through too fast not to kill any of the dinos if it goes too fast.

That’s what my setting is also.

Phosphate remover remover the phosphate and turned the hair algae brown. It could be somthing else. I am trying to help.

Not using any phosphate remover. Thanks for trying yo help !

OP has it set for the flowrate recommended to kill algae, which is exactly the opposite of what you want to do. That's just going to give the ostreo fewer competitors.

I did tons of reading when I originally set it up. Some say slow flow, others faster. I went with this flow because that’s the pump I had, and it worked the first time.

This time it’s not working so we’ll see if it goes away on its own. It’s really hard to know exactly what to do.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

I did tons of reading when I originally set it up. Some say slow flow, others faster. I went with this flow because that’s the pump I had, and it worked the first time.

This time it’s not working so we’ll see if it goes away on its own. It’s really hard to know exactly what to do.

It's worth a shot to throttle the flow back. Just throw a ball valve on there and dial the flow back to 250gph or so.

Dinos are heavily armored, so contact time is super important. The competing claims of flowrate boil down to the additional fact that dinos can double their population fast (I think every 20 minutes), so as long as you are hitting 90,000uW/cm more flow is helpful. Reading the specs on your specific UV, at your flowrate you are not hitting 90,000 you are hitting 26,000.

It's entirely possible that the UV did very little last time you beat it and something else like a competing diatom or bacterial predator was boosted by something else you did like raising nutrients, adding silicates, or temporarily starving the dino of an important trace element.

 

[Idech]

Dinos are heavily armored, so contact time is super important. The competing claims of flowrate boil down to the additional fact that dinos can double their population fast (I think every 20 minutes), so as long as you are hitting 90,000uW/cm more flow is helpful. Reading the specs on your specific UV, at your flowrate you are not hitting 90,000 you are hitting 26,000.

I’m confused now. I thought you meant I needed more flow. I am using a Sicce 1.0 pump which states 251 GPH. So that’s okay, right ?

Can you explain how you made the 26 000 calculation ? I’d like to understand the formula.

Thanks !

 

[ZombieEngineer]

I’m confused now. I thought you meant I needed more flow. I am using a Sicce 1.0 pump which states 251 GPH. So that’s okay, right ?

Can you explain how you made the 26 000 calculation ? I’d like to understand the formula.

Thanks !

If you're at 251 now you're good flow wise. I read earlier you were feeding it at 800gph.

Formula is 90,000 × rated flowrate / actually flowrate.

If you're at 251, you're getting 84,000 which is likely sufficient.

 

[Idech]

Formula is 90,000 × rated flowrate / actually flowrate.

If you're at 251, you're getting 84,000 which is likely sufficient.

That’s a relief, thank you !

I still don’t get it though.

90 000 x 251 / actual flow rate = 84 000

So actual flow rate = 268 GPH but where does this number come from ?

 

[GarrettT]

UV size - 3watt per gallon
flow thru UV - 2x to 3x total tank volume

UV took 2-3 days to remove dinos from my live rock. About 1-1.5 months to remove amphidinium dinos on the sand by dosing silicate. Dino’s really aren’t that big of an issue when you have the right equipment needed for it.
I don’t recommend raising Po4 and No3 to overly high levels - maybe < .1 and 5-10ppm.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

That’s a relief, thank you !

I still don’t get it though.

90 000 x 251 / actual flow rate = 84 000

So actual flow rate = 268 GPH but where does this number come from ?

Rated flowrate of the aquaUV 15W is 233. 90,000 * 233 / 251 = 84000

 

[KonradTO]

Hey mate. I just looked under the microscope the red dust I have on the sand in my 32g, very similar to your pics. Since I have high silicate I thought it was diatoms, so I included a DI stage in my RO system.
Ended up being Amphidinium sp. Not toxic, but UV is pointless with them. Right now I am running UV 24/7 in case I have also some ostreopsis in between.