How long to win the battle when using UV for dinos ?

[ZombieEngineer]

For now I am going with high temps (82 F) and higher nutrients. In a month or so I will start dosing silicates if this does not work.
I am also considering peroxide dosing. I read a lot of contrasting opinions so I want to know better first. Some people report increased cuc some decreased cuc, other people had apparently coral suffering from this. I have no sps so in theory it should be fine, but I care a lot about the microfauna that came with the rocks

Silicates are what @taricha recommends. No reason to try something else that probably wont work when this is known to work well. Silicates will not adversely affect your tank. They will replace dinos with diatoms and then both go away when you stop dosing later.

 

[KonradTO]

Silicates are what @taricha recommends. No reason to try something else that probably wont work when this is known to work well. Silicates will not adversely affect your tank. They will replace dinos with diatoms and then both go away when you stop dosing later.

I understand. It is just that I want to test myself what makes the actual difference for me. If I try everything together it will be harder to tell what worked and what not.
Fortunately I am not seeing noticeable adverse effects on my corals (the only 2 sps I had died already) and also my pods seems fine, differently to what I experienced with Ostreopsis. So I am not in a rush.. also I want to use spongeExcel for now (and not some random waterglass product) because I don't want to buy an expensive hanna checker for silicates yet. In my area Brightwell is not a very common brand so I will order and start dosing after holidays. I will keep everyone updated in the Amphidinium thead
For now I tried:
Blackout (3 days, did not work)
New live rocks (introduced 2 weeks ago)
Reduced fuge light time and intensity (one week ago)
Increasing nutrients (now seems stable NO3 at 10 ppm, PO4 cannot test until I get new reagents)
Increasing temperatures (started 4 days ago ramping up, reached 82F today)

Anyway I think I will start dosing silicates nonetheless and keep dosing it for a while, it seems to be beneficial for pods and microinverts so why not. Maybe I will follow Randy instructions for dosing long term..

 

[KonradTO]

I understand. It is just that I want to test myself what makes the actual difference for me. If I try everything together it will be harder to tell what worked and what not.
Fortunately I am not seeing noticeable adverse effects on my corals (the only 2 sps I had died already) and also my pods seems fine, differently to what I experienced with Ostreopsis. So I am not in a rush.. also I want to use spongeExcel for now (and not some random waterglass product) because I don't want to buy an expensive hanna checker for silicates yet. In my area Brightwell is not a very common brand so I will order and start dosing after holidays. I will keep everyone updated in the Amphidinium thead
For now I tried:
Blackout (3 days, did not work)
New live rocks (introduced 2 weeks ago)
Reduced fuge light time and intensity (one week ago)
Increasing nutrients (now seems stable NO3 at 10 ppm, PO4 cannot test until I get new reagents)
Increasing temperatures (started 4 days ago ramping up, reached 82F today)

Anyway I think I will start dosing silicates nonetheless and keep dosing it for a while, it seems to be beneficial for pods and microinverts so why not. Maybe I will follow Randy instructions for dosing long term..

Also I have access to a very good microscope for free. It would be nice to find out a standardized sampling design for measuring how many dinoflagellates/diatoms are present in the substrate over time with dosing.
Maybe shaking a fixed amount of sand+water (3 samples) and measuring the density of cells in suspension?

 

[ZombieEngineer]

So I am not in a rush.. also I want to use spongeExcel for now (and not some random waterglass product) because I don't want to buy an expensive hanna checker for silicates yet. In my area Brightwell is not a very common brand so I will order and start dosing after holidays.

Loudwolf brand is really good and pharmaceutical grade water glass. Substantially cheaper. Spongexcel is basically watered down waterglass.

 

[KonradTO]

Loudwolf brand is really good and pharmaceutical grade water glass. Substantially cheaper. Spongexcel is basically watered down waterglass.

Yes you would be amazed how different brands of anything you can buy differs from US to UK/EU. Basically most of the stuff you use there is very expensive/rare here. (E.g. the most easily found tests in pet shops are from a brand called Sera. Probably not existent in the US).
Does the waterglass you mentioned have specified the concentration of Sodium nitrate on it? The good thing with the brightwell one is that you know how many ml you have to start dosing. If I had the concentration I could try my own regime. As far as I know you have to surpass the 100 ug/l in order to see some diatoms outbreak. It is hard to tell though how much gets consumed without testing..

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Yes you would be amazed how different brands of anything you can buy differs from US to UK/EU. Basically most of the stuff you use there is very expensive/rare here. (E.g. the most easily found tests in pet shops are from a brand called Sera. Probably not existent in the US).
Does the waterglass you mentioned have specified the concentration of Sodium nitrate on it? The good thing with the brightwell one is that you know how many ml you have to start dosing. If I had the concentration I could try my own regime. As far as I know you have to surpass the 100 ug/l in order to see some diatoms outbreak. It is hard to tell though how much gets consumed without testing..

Per randy. You want 3-5ppm to trigger diatoms.

"Here’s how to determine dosing amounts. I’ll assume that you want 17 mM (1 ppm SiO2) dosing, and you can scale from there. If the concentration of the supplement is 29% silica by weight (41° Baume), then it is 290,000 ppm silica. To get to 1 ppm silica, you then need to dilute by 290,000 fold. If you add 1.3 grams of this supplement (0.96 mL) to a tank with 100 gallons (378,500 mL), then the final concentration will be about 17 mM (1 ppm SiO2). I’d disperse the concentrated silicate solution into some fresh water before adding it to the tank, and then add it to a high flow area. Because the pH is high, you likely will see some cloudiness that is mostly magnesium hydroxide. The magnesium hydroxide will dissolve without a problem, but to be safe, add the supplement in a high flow area."

 

[KonradTO]

Per randy. You want 3-5ppm to trigger diatoms.

"Here’s how to determine dosing amounts. I’ll assume that you want 17 mM (1 ppm SiO2) dosing, and you can scale from there. If the concentration of the supplement is 29% silica by weight (41° Baume), then it is 290,000 ppm silica. To get to 1 ppm silica, you then need to dilute by 290,000 fold. If you add 1.3 grams of this supplement (0.96 mL) to a tank with 100 gallons (378,500 mL), then the final concentration will be about 17 mM (1 ppm SiO2). I’d disperse the concentrated silicate solution into some fresh water before adding it to the tank, and then add it to a high flow area. Because the pH is high, you likely will see some cloudiness that is mostly magnesium hydroxide. The magnesium hydroxide will dissolve without a problem, but to be safe, add the supplement in a high flow area."

Nice! Thanks! I guess that even if accumulates it should get depleter pretty fast

 

[Idech]

Why can’t you put it in your tank stand and drill some holes? I DIY a lot of times in the hobby. I won’t build my own tank though. Also could use Velcrow industrial strength on Amazon. It can hold 7lbs. One side is tape and one side is velcrow and put it on it. you could also just velcrow it on the back side of the tank. Use plenty of it though

There isn’t much room inside the stand, really. I’ll put everything behind the tank as I have room. I might try velcroying it outside the stand, but I haven’t had luck with double sided tape or velcro tape before. Even small components fall off.

So far after 2 days of just running the UV 24/7 and disturbing the sand once or twice a day dinos seems to be diminishing. Lights are 45%, 6 hours per day.

I’ve ordered Dino-x and it should be here Friday. I might not even use it though and just keep the UV running.

Nitrates today : 11.2 ppm
Phosphates : 0.09 ppm (I think that is incorrect because I spilled a good amount of the reagent on the table. I tried to put it back into the tube but not 100%).

Phosphates are usually between 0.03 and 0.06

 

[Dav2996]

There isn’t much room inside the stand, really. I’ll put everything behind the tank as I have room. I might try velcroying it outside the stand, but I haven’t had luck with double sided tape or velcro tape before. Even small components fall off.

So far after 2 days of just running the UV 24/7 and disturbing the sand once or twice a day dinos seems to be diminishing. Lights are 45%, 6 hours per day.

I’ve ordered Dino-x and it should be here Friday. I might not even use it though and just keep the UV running.

Nitrates today : 11.2 ppm
Phosphates : 0.09 ppm (I think that is incorrect because I spilled a good amount of the reagent on the table. I tried to put it back into the tube but not 100%).

Phosphates are usually between 0.03 and 0.06

I use that velcrow I mentioned on Amazon to mount all my dosers on the wall and even my entire 8 plug power strip is held up pretty good by it on the wall I used it liberally though

 

[Idech]

I use that velcrow I mentioned on Amazon to mount all my dosers on the wall and even my entire 8 plug power strip is held up pretty good by it on the wall I used it liberally though

Is this it ?

 

[vetteguy53081]

There isn’t much room inside the stand, really. I’ll put everything behind the tank as I have room. I might try velcroying it outside the stand, but I haven’t had luck with double sided tape or velcro tape before. Even small components fall off.

So far after 2 days of just running the UV 24/7 and disturbing the sand once or twice a day dinos seems to be diminishing. Lights are 45%, 6 hours per day.

I’ve ordered Dino-x and it should be here Friday. I might not even use it though and just keep the UV running.

Nitrates today : 11.2 ppm
Phosphates : 0.09 ppm (I think that is incorrect because I spilled a good amount of the reagent on the table. I tried to put it back into the tube but not 100%).

Phosphates are usually between 0.03 and 0.06

DinoX is hit and miss and can or may promote Cyano after Dino. Keep it simple for dino:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

 

[Idech]

@vetteguy53081 I did this the first time I had them and it worked. This second time, 5 months later, I used the same method but it didn’t work.

Also, the corals are tired of being in very low light and having peroxyde in the water. They need a break.

So for now I’m just scraping the dinos once a day and using the UV 24/7. We’ll see how it goes.

Dino-X is the very last resort, if I’m desperate. I hate using chemicals in my tanks.

 

[Dav2996]

Is this it ?

Yes that is it

 

[Dav2996]

@vetteguy53081 I did this the first time I had them and it worked. This second time, 5 months later, I used the same method but it didn’t work.

Also, the corals are tired of being in very low light and having peroxyde in the water. They need a break.

So for now I’m just scraping the dinos once a day and using the UV 24/7. We’ll see how it goes.

Dino-X is the very last resort, if I’m desperate. I hate using chemicals in my tanks.

I love using that product to mount stuff but don’t use the velcrow on it a lot it will pull the adhesive eventually and it held up my power strip on the wall in my stand for a year and half with all the plugs plugged in. I used as much surface area and made the produce going across the side of the strip diagonally. So it can get better grip but that is the heaviest item I am using for it to hold.

 

[ScottB]

I beat dinos a few months ago with a 36w UV on my 90g. I didn't even follow the "rules" for proper turnover rate on the UV; I ran it with a tiny little maxijet pump that did maybe 200gph. I saw a night and day difference in less than 24 hours after running the UV. Completely wiped them out in 2 days.

Slow speed is always better. These guys wear body armor so they need a proper cooking.

 

[ScottB]

There isn’t much room inside the stand, really. I’ll put everything behind the tank as I have room. I might try velcroying it outside the stand, but I haven’t had luck with double sided tape or velcro tape before. Even small components fall off.

So far after 2 days of just running the UV 24/7 and disturbing the sand once or twice a day dinos seems to be diminishing. Lights are 45%, 6 hours per day.

I’ve ordered Dino-x and it should be here Friday. I might not even use it though and just keep the UV running.

Nitrates today : 11.2 ppm
Phosphates : 0.09 ppm (I think that is incorrect because I spilled a good amount of the reagent on the table. I tried to put it back into the tube but not 100%).

Phosphates are usually between 0.03 and 0.06

I would skip the Dino-X. Last resort nuclear option. Look at what all it is labeled to kill -- virtually everything. Then look for the ingredients. At least they don't claim it to be "bacteria".

For a fish only? Sure, what the heck.

 

[Idech]

I would skip the Dino-X. Last resort nuclear option. Look at what all it is labeled to kill -- virtually everything. Then look for the ingredients. At least they don't claim it to be "bacteria".

For a fish only? Sure, what the heck.

I put it on a shelf for now. It’s just reassuring to have it. It’s next to my Aiptasia-X, that I never opened either…

 

[Idech]

I put the UV behind the tank so it doesn’t get on my nerves as much.

I’ve been stirring the sand once a day and the dinos are under control. If I skip one day, they come back the next. I’ve been dosing bacteria once a day and sometimes (dead) phyto but that’s it.

I have a feeling this will be going on a for a long time but I guess it’s not too high a price to pay. Let’s hope it goes away soon.

This is in direct sunlight, at the end of the day, so corals are retracted :

 

[Idech]

I’m still fighting dinos. I made the mistake of doing a big WC so it got worse.

They are prorocentrum so UV isn’t doing much. Stirring the sand works but they come back with a vengeance two days later.

I bought some sodium silicate and I’ve been dosing 0,8 ml to 1,0 ml for 3 days now. I don’t see any change but I know enough not to hurry it. Better slow than sorry.

I’m hoping this will end soon.

 

[Idech]

Now dosing 2 ml per day and I’m not even sure there are diatoms but dinos are worse than ever.

Since testing today I am officially in the « zero Club ». O nitrates and 0 phosphates. Sigh. Now I have to find out how to bring them up.

Does this ever end ?