How safe is copper?

[Phlynamjax]

I have early symptoms of ICK in my 80g FO tank. I am debating on performing copper treatment in this tank. I have few sensitive fishes in there including regal angels and leopard wrasses. I QT all my fishes, but I did not treat Regal and Leopard wrasse with copper. All my fishes are still very active and eating well. I do not see ICK on body, just tail at the moment. I am debating if I should let them fight it off or dose copper in the tank. I will not be adding any corals or inverts to this tank so adding copper is not an issue. I am just afraid that I will lose my leopard wrasse and regal angel to copper. I currently have cupramine in hand. Should I just monitor? or start copper treatment?

 

[KJ]

@Humblefish @4FordFamily @Brew12 @Big G @Maritimer

 

[jeffrey holloway]

I agree with KJ.

 

[Big G]

Here's a thread discussing dosing Regal Angels with copper: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/regal-angel-and-copper.223161/
and another discussing Leopard Wrasse: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/qt-my-leopard-wrasse.259094/#post-3069485
Hope this helps. Both are beautiful fish.
I'd treat with chelated copper (Coppersafe) Too many complications using ionic copper (Cupramine) with wrasses. Just too many bad secondary infections, etc. from a nasty case of ich or velvet. But there is a risk. After all, copper is a poison plain and simple.

 

[KJ]

Here's a thread discussing dosing Regal Angels with copper: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/regal-angel-and-copper.223161/
and another discussing Leopard Wrasse: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/qt-my-leopard-wrasse.259094/#post-3069485
Hope this helps. Both are beautiful fish.

Thanks @Big G

 

[Maritimer]

I have a regal in copper as I type this, though it's Coppersafe and not Cupramine. Raise levels slowly, gradually.

I haven't tried leopard wrasses as yet, but would like to have a go with a pair or trio of blue-star leopards.

~Bruce

 

[4FordFamily]

I have a regal in copper as I type this, though it's Coppersafe and not Cupramine. Raise levels slowly, gradually.

I haven't tried leopard wrasses as yet, but would like to have a go with a pair or trio of blue-star leopards.

~Bruce

I too have experience with both. For leopards, it’s inportant you measure. You don’t want it over 2PPM for chelated copper. If increased slowly over 5-7 days, they handle it pretty well, especially if established for some time before treatment and eating.

Chelated copper is coppersafe, which is what I’m using. I’ve used cupramine successfully as well.

I advise against treating in the tank it’ll absorb a lot of copper and swing your copper levels— and if your max is 2PPM of chelated, you won’t have room for this which will be frustrating.

 

[Big G]

I have a regal in copper as I type this, though it's Coppersafe and not Cupramine. Raise levels slowly, gradually.

Nice fish. Beautiful.

 

[Humblefish]

I would say post up some pics (closeups of the tail) before even considering dosing copper into your DT.

Might just be the early stages of Lympho: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lymphocystis.257461/

 

[Phlynamjax]

I want to thanks everyone for the feedback. My butterfly has the worst visual symptom. All fishes are eating well and still very active. I ended up dosing cupramine as I do not have coppersafe on my hand. I ramped it up to 0.25mg. I tested using the Salifert Cu kit. I am going to ramp it up to .5mg slowly over next few days. My most recent addition is a flame angel which I added yesterday. He was in QT for 4 weeks. However, I did not treated him with copper.

 

[NefTunzReef]

My leopard wrasse is nearing the end of a 30 day cupramine QT at therapeutic levels without any adverse effects thus far. It's very active and eats quite well. I'm not saying every wrasse will have the same result but it is definitely possible to achieve a successful outcome.

 

[Phlynamjax]

Here is the video I took 3 days ago before the outbreak.

 

[Phlynamjax]

Does it look ich or velvet to you guys? So far most fish acts normal except one of my leopard wrasse is not coming out from sand. Everyone still eats well. I am asking because I'm debating how much time I should take to reach therapeutic level.

 

[Humblefish]

@Phlynamjax Video says unavailable, but the photo you posted looks like velvet to me.

 

[Humblefish]

More info on velvet: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

How to treat: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499437

 

[4FordFamily]

@Phlynamjax Video says unavailable, but the photo you posted looks like velvet to me.

+1 velvet definitely.

 

[Phlynamjax]

Thanks for the reply. I will ramp up the cupramine to therapeutic level. So far I do not have any loss and all fishes are eating and still active. When do I expect to see the decline or possible loss on fishes I have?

 

[HotRocks]

Thanks for the reply. I will ramp up the cupramine to therapeutic level. So far I do not have any loss and all fishes are eating and still active. When do I expect to see the decline or possible loss on fishes I have?

The problem with velvet it it affects the gills. If the damage is done, prior to reaching therapudic copper levels you could lose fish within first few days, but it really just depends on the severity of damage. If you see them stop eating or swimming in the powerhead, it's probably not promising after that.

 

[Deinonych]

@Phlynamjax Video says unavailable, but the photo you posted looks like velvet to me.

I agree. A textbook case, IMO.

 

[Phlynamjax]

Updates:

I am trying to minimize future loss. Semilarvatus Butterfly and Goldeflake angel seems most heavily infected. They are still eating, but Butterfly does not look good. My other angels are doing better. I see some spots on tail, but not much on their body. Also, their behavior seems normal. My small fishes such as wrasses, firefish, dwarf angels doesn't seem they were impacted at all. I am currently running cupramine at 0.5mg/L. I raised cupramine to therapeutic level under 24 hours. No casualty so far. I am hoping that I can save most of my fishes. I believe that I noticed the symptom rather quickly and took appropriated action recommended by this forum. I hope that my other fishes weren't heavily infested and they can make it through this copper treatment. Only time will tell.