Hydrogen Peroxide

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 21, 2019

ksed said:
Water clarity. It’s helpful with water clarity so I have been using it as a simple solution.
I wasn’t sure what the benefit of the Oxidator is. Perhaps just slow release?

like ozone in a reactor, the oxydator confines most of the reaction inside of it. That said, I do not know how much of a benefit that is.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 21, 2019

Feet4Fish said:
oxydators are awesome and a great addition to any tank. Supplies non electric supply of oxygen, raises ORP, clarifies water! No downsides! @atoll can provide tons of experience and insight!

no downside? Do you know what effect it has on say, the bioavailability of iron?

we need to be careful with generalizations that, even if true in your tank, may not always apply.

Lasse · Dec 21, 2019

I use it with the goal to have a rather clear water (no WC in my system) It works good in that way. For the moment - I do not run my oxydator - it is a test I do. I´ll go back to using it in a month or two

Sincerely Lasse

atoll · Dec 21, 2019

SDK said:
I’ve been using the D model for about a year now with similar positive results. A small, but steady stream of both liquid H2O2 and super fine pure oxygen bubbles are fed In to the aquarium. You can see the bubbles dissolving directly into the water column. Nothing my naked eye can see makes it more than a few inches away from the unit.

What you wont see is the oxygen that is dissolved in the water of course. In little flow I have observed fine bubbles leave the Oxydator and travel horizontally through the water as if in equilibrium in buoyancy.

atoll · Dec 21, 2019

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
no downside? Do you know what effect it has on say, the bioavailability of iron?

we need to be careful with generalizations that, even if true in your tank, may not always apply.

Any date that ozone may or may not have such an effect on bioavailability of iron?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 21, 2019

atoll said:
Any date that ozone may or may not have such an effect on bioavailability of iron?

Ferric iron is much less soluble than ferrous iron and is less bioavailable. The article below discusses the oxidation of ferrous iron with hydrogen peroxide (you asked about ozone, but I presume the peroxide is even more pertinent)

The oxidation of Fe(II) with H2O2 in seawater

The oxidation of Fe(II) with H2O2 has been measured in seawater as a function of pH (2 to 8.5), temperature (5 to 45°C) and salinity (0 to 35). The ef…

www.sciencedirect.com

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 21, 2019

This paper discusses how ferrous iron that gets oxidized can become less bioavailable

ftp://ftp.soest.hawaii.edu/glazer/Chen%20References/Papers1/Pham%202008%20Oxygenation%20of%20Fe%20II.pdf

atoll · Dec 21, 2019

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Ferric iron is much less soluble than ferrous iron and is less bioavailable. The article below discusses the oxidation of ferrous iron with hydrogen peroxide (you asked about ozone, but I presume the peroxide is even more pertinent)

The oxidation of Fe(II) with H2O2 in seawater

The oxidation of Fe(II) with H2O2 has been measured in seawater as a function of pH (2 to 8.5), temperature (5 to 45°C) and salinity (0 to 35). The ef…

www.sciencedirect.com

When using an Oxydator very little peroxide enters the aquarium water, it is broken down within the ceramic beaker which also acts as a catalyst as it is made of very similar if not ID to the catalysts.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 21, 2019

atoll said:
When using an Oxydator very little peroxide enters the aquarium water, it is broken down within the ceramic beaker which also acts as a catalyst as it is made of very similar if not ID to the catalysts.

right, confining it prevents direct impact of peroxide on organisms, but solublr iron enters the oxidator just as well as organics that are being oxidized to clarify the water.
I do not believe that any effects on water clarity come from the little bit of O2 that is added to the water, but from oxidizing reactions inside of it.

But even if that is untrue, O2 also oxidizes ferrous iron. There’s just no way to oxidize organics and not oxidize ferrous iron.

atoll · Dec 21, 2019

From Dan Underwood who did some testing of Oxydators with regards to free peroxide in the aquarium.
"The following was sent to me a while back.
Quote
"Dan Underwood, owner and operations of seahorsesource.com.

"As mentioned above, the Oxydators work by the catalyst reacting with the peroxide. This releases the gas inside the device and the gas O2 rises. As it expands. Using the recommend size oxydator and the recommended solution, I have not been able to get a peroxide reading in a tank. When I have increased the strength several times that of the recommendation, I did get peroxide readings. "

Unfortunately Dan does not say how many times the recommendation of peroxide was needed to get a residue reading. My guess it was at least 3 times. My own experiments although hardly scientific show I had to go to around 18% to achieve a negative affect in the DT.
I never use more than 12% and 2 catalysts in my 100 gallon that I feed at least 4 times a day and heavily with plenty of fish in. I currently use 12% peroxide and 2 catalysts in my
Oxydator A.

atoll · Dec 21, 2019

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
right, confining it prevents direct impact of peroxide on organisms, but solublr iron enters the oxidator just as well as organics that are being oxidized to clarify the water.
I do not believe that any effects on water clarity come from the little bit of O2 that is added to the water, but from oxidizing reactions inside of it.

But even if that is untrue, O2 also oxidizes ferrous iron. There’s just no way to oxidize organics and not oxidize ferrous iron.

I grow algae and add iron via your DIY advice but I have not had to do so in my new tank which I set up 3 months ago and I am growing Ulva intestinalis like you wouldn't believe in my ATS.

Mortie31 · Dec 21, 2019

I don’t think a satisfactory explanation of how these work has ever been produced, ive used one for over a year now and have no yellowing of water at all... there is no actual flow of water through them at all, the catalytic reaction of the peroxide forms Heavy oxygen which in turn forces small amounts of peroxide and heavy oxygen continually out of the reactor and into the tank water. I have a W which holds 1L of 12% peroxide and this lasts about 6 weeks my system volume is 900L. IMO the only thing that can be keeping my water from yellowing is the peroxide as I don’t run carbon and do very few water changes now

atoll · Dec 21, 2019

Mortie31 said:
I don’t think a satisfactory explanation of how these work has ever been produced, ive used one for over a year now and have no yellowing of water at all... there is no actual flow of water through them at all, the catalytic reaction of the peroxide forms O3 which in turn forces small amounts of peroxide and 03 continually out of the reactor and into the tank water. I have a W which holds 1L of 12% peroxide and this lasts about 6 weeks my system volume is 900L. IMO the only thing that can be keeping my water from yellowing is the peroxide as I don’t run carbon and do very few water changes now

I hardly ever do water changes. I also run a waterfall ATS in which I grow Ulva intestinalis which grows at a phenomenal rate.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 21, 2019

atoll said:
I grow algae and add iron via your DIY advice but I have not had to do so in my new tank which I set up 3 months ago and I am growing Ulva intestinalis like you wouldn't believe in my ATS.

great!

Mortie31 · Dec 21, 2019

atoll said:
I hardly ever do water changes. I also run a waterfall ATS in which I grow Ulva intestinalis which grows at a phenomenal rate.

I wish we had a better understanding as to what was actually happening, but I have no doubt they oxidise some organics... I need to point out I have edited my post from O3 to heavy oxygen. I also dose Fe as per Randys recipe and currently dose 3ml a day and never get a reading on my monthly ICPs, so in addition to my algae consuming it the oxydator could be affecting my Fe availability

atoll · Dec 21, 2019

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
great!

I am sure I will have to start adding iron soon given the rate of growth of my Ulva.

FishDoc · Dec 23, 2019

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
What are you trying to accomplish?

No, it won’t produce ozone. It may produce other oxidized products. I have a suspicion that it’s anti algae effects (if any) work by oxidizing metals like iron, making them less bioavailable to algae.

Randy shares my thoughts as well. I suspect that long term dosing into the water column can have negative effects on bacteria populations in the tank. I know many have had luck using h202 dosing to eliminate cyano, likely due to the same circumstances that lead to the negative effects witnessed to the BB.